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Every service I've used with TOTP codes (12 at current count) has given me some sort of randomised backup token at the same time to use if I lose my 2FA app. I

Every service I've used with TOTP codes (12 at current count) has given me some sort of randomised backup token at the same time to use if I lose my 2FA app. I store those somewhere separate. I'm not going to argue that this is user-friendly but AFAIK there's no reason you're obliged to use cloud backups today.

lxgr 3y ago
This is actually a pattern I really don't like: Why do I mostly get these thrown at me for TOTP, but not other 2FA methods? What am I supposed to do with these "backup codes"? Store them all in my password manager? At that point, I might as well store the TOTP seed there and rely on its multifactor authentication – which is probably fair for many use cases, but suffers from the problem outlined by GP. I think sites should treat TOTPs effectively equivalent to Passkeys, i.e. as maybe synced, maybe backed up, but maybe neither – and then the user needs an alternative login method, just like for all 2FA methods.
- brewdad 3y ago
  Personally, I use Bitwarden for passwords and store my 2FA seeds in a Keepass database on my PC and backed up to my cloud. It isn't perfect by any means but at least if my Bitwarden gets compromised, my 2FA tokens are safe and vice versa. If I lose control of both, welp, it's gonna be a bad time I guess.
- sowbug 3y ago
  Choosing 2FA segregates users into two buckets. Most people are satisfied with the risk of allowing password reset emails and social engineering attacks. They don't pick 2FA. The rest are generally more sophisticated users, and are willing to risk loss of the entire account if they lose their credentials. That's the price for an overall increase in account security. From this perspective, it makes sense to provide backup codes as another tool in the DIY account-management toolbox. These buckets oversimplify the situation, but they help explain why backup codes are offered as last-ditch authentication for 2FA.
- ploxiln 3y ago
  I write the backup codes in a small paper notebook, kept in a drawer at home. I've had to use it maybe once in the past decade. It's very unlikely that I'll lose both my phone and the notebook at the same time. It's extremely unlikely that anyone who breaks into my house and finds this notebook, can do anything with it.

lxgr 3y ago

This is actually a pattern I really don't like: Why do I mostly get these thrown at me for TOTP, but not other 2FA methods? What am I supposed to do with these "backup codes"? Store them all in my password manager? At that point, I might as well store the TOTP seed there and rely on its multifactor authentication – which is probably fair for many use cases, but suffers from the problem outlined by GP. I think sites should treat TOTPs effectively equivalent to Passkeys, i.e. as maybe synced, maybe backed up, but maybe neither – and then the user needs an alternative login method, just like for all 2FA methods.

brewdad 3y ago
Personally, I use Bitwarden for passwords and store my 2FA seeds in a Keepass database on my PC and backed up to my cloud. It isn't perfect by any means but at least if my Bitwarden gets compromised, my 2FA tokens are safe and vice versa. If I lose control of both, welp, it's gonna be a bad time I guess.
sowbug 3y ago
Choosing 2FA segregates users into two buckets. Most people are satisfied with the risk of allowing password reset emails and social engineering attacks. They don't pick 2FA. The rest are generally more sophisticated users, and are willing to risk loss of the entire account if they lose their credentials. That's the price for an overall increase in account security. From this perspective, it makes sense to provide backup codes as another tool in the DIY account-management toolbox. These buckets oversimplify the situation, but they help explain why backup codes are offered as last-ditch authentication for 2FA.
ploxiln 3y ago
I write the backup codes in a small paper notebook, kept in a drawer at home. I've had to use it maybe once in the past decade. It's very unlikely that I'll lose both my phone and the notebook at the same time. It's extremely unlikely that anyone who breaks into my house and finds this notebook, can do anything with it.