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I'm curious how long it will be before they try to do this with Apple silicon and Nvidia.

alephnerd 3y ago
Nvidia can't sell in China due to Department of Commerce sanctions, and Apple Silicon was always targeted at consumer applications. This is basically targeting AMD EPYC and Intel Xeon product lines, both of which already can't be sold to the Chinese government due to existing DoD and DoC sanctions. Basically, it's just PR.
- notjulianjaynes 3y ago
  >Nvidia can't sell in China due to Department of Commerce sanctions I believe they can still do business there, just not sell cards above a (likely somewhat arbitrary) level of performance. There is a Chinese market RTX4090 they recently released for example. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-reportedly-creating-new-rtx-4090-d-dragon-gpu-to-comply-with-us-export-regulations-for-china https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-reportedly-creating...
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    Yep! And it's on the chopping block [0]: "That's not productive," Raimondo said. "I am telling you if you redesign a chip around a particular cutline that enables them to do AI, I am going to control it the very next day." [0] Also, it's moreso about the buyers and use case. If it can be used for cutting edge simulations related applications, it will absolutely get controlled. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-talks-with-nvidia-about-ai-chip-sales-china-raimondo-2023-12-11/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-talks-with-nvidia-abou...
    - notjulianjaynes 3y ago
      The current top of the line consumer GPU seems like such a weird metric. I was "Doing AI" on a $300 laptop in 2013. (Running Dragon Naturally Speaking.)
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      Linked article, second paragraph, emphasis mine: >U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo, speaking in an interview with Reuters on Monday, said Nvidia "can, will and should sell AI chips to China because most AI chips will be for commercial applications." China doesn't need to do anything to win this New Cold War, we (the US) will lose of our own accord.
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        And after that paragraph: > "What we cannot allow them to ship is the most sophisticated, highest-processing power AI chips, which would enable China to train their frontier models," she added The Lovelace line is on the newer end, though the RTX4090 is more commercial driven in usecases.
        Dalewyn 3y ago
        And they've complied: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/12/29/0111242/nvidia-slowed-rtx-4090-gpu-by-11-percent-to-make-it-100-percent-legal-for-export-in-china https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/12/29/0111242/nvidia-slow... They aren't selling the "most sophisticated, highest-processing power" chips, but they are (and rightfully so given the law) selling sophisticated, high-processing power chips. When we're beating around the bush refusing to not sell to China while they go and do the deed wholesale on their side, it's a foregone conclusion who is winning this New Cold War and whether it's worth waging it (for us) at all. Also, it's been well over 24 hours since ComSec gave that "the very next day" statement.

Nvidia can't sell in China due to Department of Commerce sanctions, and Apple Silicon was always targeted at consumer applications. This is basically targeting AMD EPYC and Intel Xeon product lines, both of which already can't be sold to the Chinese government due to existing DoD and DoC sanctions. Basically, it's just PR.

notjulianjaynes 3y ago
>Nvidia can't sell in China due to Department of Commerce sanctions I believe they can still do business there, just not sell cards above a (likely somewhat arbitrary) level of performance. There is a Chinese market RTX4090 they recently released for example. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-reportedly-creating-new-rtx-4090-d-dragon-gpu-to-comply-with-us-export-regulations-for-china https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-reportedly-creating...
- alephnerd 3y ago
  Yep! And it's on the chopping block [0]: "That's not productive," Raimondo said. "I am telling you if you redesign a chip around a particular cutline that enables them to do AI, I am going to control it the very next day." [0] Also, it's moreso about the buyers and use case. If it can be used for cutting edge simulations related applications, it will absolutely get controlled. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-talks-with-nvidia-about-ai-chip-sales-china-raimondo-2023-12-11/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-talks-with-nvidia-abou...
  - notjulianjaynes 3y ago
    The current top of the line consumer GPU seems like such a weird metric. I was "Doing AI" on a $300 laptop in 2013. (Running Dragon Naturally Speaking.)
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    Linked article, second paragraph, emphasis mine: >U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo, speaking in an interview with Reuters on Monday, said Nvidia "can, will and should sell AI chips to China because most AI chips will be for commercial applications." China doesn't need to do anything to win this New Cold War, we (the US) will lose of our own accord.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      And after that paragraph: > "What we cannot allow them to ship is the most sophisticated, highest-processing power AI chips, which would enable China to train their frontier models," she added The Lovelace line is on the newer end, though the RTX4090 is more commercial driven in usecases.
      - Dalewyn 3y ago
        And they've complied: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/12/29/0111242/nvidia-slowed-rtx-4090-gpu-by-11-percent-to-make-it-100-percent-legal-for-export-in-china https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/12/29/0111242/nvidia-slow... They aren't selling the "most sophisticated, highest-processing power" chips, but they are (and rightfully so given the law) selling sophisticated, high-processing power chips. When we're beating around the bush refusing to not sell to China while they go and do the deed wholesale on their side, it's a foregone conclusion who is winning this New Cold War and whether it's worth waging it (for us) at all. Also, it's been well over 24 hours since ComSec gave that "the very next day" statement.