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Hipster devops was overcomplicated long before kubernetes. In my 1st job we had autoscaling on AWS to handle peaks… except that our servers took about 30 minut

by LtWorf 3y ago

Hipster devops was overcomplicated long before kubernetes. In my 1st job we had autoscaling on AWS to handle peaks… except that our servers took about 30 minutes to do the upgrades, download gcc, compile all the needed python modules… We'd always reach the autoscaling limit because the new servers weren't doing anything at all. All of them would be downloading and compiling the same things. I was very junior, but I told my boss if we shouldn't maybe use base images that already contained everything, instead of a default blank ubuntu for the servers. The boss said no, because that wouldn't be agile. The whole thing of using yaml files to configure servers already existed, it worked terribly. It was basically meme development there. Including using mongodb for no reason at all, and using it badly so that every write was actually moving thousands of records around.

KronisLV 3y ago
> I was very junior, but I told my boss if we shouldn't maybe use base images that already contained everything, instead of a default blank ubuntu for the servers. Honestly, nowadays Docker and other OCI containers do this pretty well. Spinning up new instances and even provisioning nodes has become very easy, in addition to load balancing features those provide. 12 factor apps are also an amazingly concise way to develop and manage multiple services without going into YAML hell: https://12factor.net/ https://12factor.net/ The problem is that the management layers around containers are typically overcomplicated to the point of comedy. Kubernetes might make sense with something like K0s or K3s might make some sense but is still inherently a full time position to run on prem (with updates and observability) and will cause headaches. Hashicorp Nomad is better, but is meant for scales greater than those of most companies. Docker Swarm hits the spot (especially with something like Portainer), but nobody seems to actually care because it's not a trendy piece of tech. The day Docker Swarm dies is the day I go back to writing PHP in a shared hosting environment in protest.
- LtWorf 3y ago
  It's not fast if you refuse to create a pre-made image and recompile everything instead. Docker won't make it any more fast.
  - KronisLV 3y ago
    > refuse to create a pre-made image Docker made doing the right thing really easy, to the point where doing that is a no brainer. I guess there are people out there who might still use OCI containers as glorified stateful VMs, but luckily the majority of documentation and examples out there build proper images that have everything included by the time it actually runs and you have to actively go against that if you want the other approach.
    - LtWorf 3y ago
      chroot and debootstrap and mkfs have existed for decades before docker. It would have been no problem to create a ready image. The problem was the refusal to do so.

by LtWorf 3y ago

KronisLV 3y ago

> I was very junior, but I told my boss if we shouldn't maybe use base images that already contained everything, instead of a default blank ubuntu for the servers. Honestly, nowadays Docker and other OCI containers do this pretty well. Spinning up new instances and even provisioning nodes has become very easy, in addition to load balancing features those provide. 12 factor apps are also an amazingly concise way to develop and manage multiple services without going into YAML hell: https://12factor.net/ https://12factor.net/ The problem is that the management layers around containers are typically overcomplicated to the point of comedy. Kubernetes might make sense with something like K0s or K3s might make some sense but is still inherently a full time position to run on prem (with updates and observability) and will cause headaches. Hashicorp Nomad is better, but is meant for scales greater than those of most companies. Docker Swarm hits the spot (especially with something like Portainer), but nobody seems to actually care because it's not a trendy piece of tech. The day Docker Swarm dies is the day I go back to writing PHP in a shared hosting environment in protest.

LtWorf 3y ago
It's not fast if you refuse to create a pre-made image and recompile everything instead. Docker won't make it any more fast.
- KronisLV 3y ago
  > refuse to create a pre-made image Docker made doing the right thing really easy, to the point where doing that is a no brainer. I guess there are people out there who might still use OCI containers as glorified stateful VMs, but luckily the majority of documentation and examples out there build proper images that have everything included by the time it actually runs and you have to actively go against that if you want the other approach.
  - LtWorf 3y ago
    chroot and debootstrap and mkfs have existed for decades before docker. It would have been no problem to create a ready image. The problem was the refusal to do so.