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It's very common. If you search hn.algolia.com you'll turn up lots of articles and discussions, but this one [0] is the one that has stuck with me. Particularly

It's very common. If you search hn.algolia.com you'll turn up lots of articles and discussions, but this one [0] is the one that has stuck with me. Particularly that top comment by markdjacobsen: > One of my later insights was that burnout doesn't merely entail working too much (although that's certainly part of it); burnout often involves pouring too much of your heart and soul into something that does not love you back. I describe burnout now as a kind of "unrequited love." > So many of us go above and beyond for our companies/projects/teams/whatever. The author here describes overcommitting at work. We might have the best of intentions, but at some point, we don't see the returns we yearned for and start to question what all this self-sacrificial giving is for. That is when burnout really sets in. This has been my own experience—I burned out hard while working at a tiny startup as the primary developer. External pressure was actually very low—it was self-funded and the CEO didn't feel much pressure to move quickly—but I overinvested in the project and company and eventually realized that the company didn't love me back. That's the best advice I can give for burnout—the company will never love you back. No, you're not the exception. Give what you're contracted to give and what will get you better opportunities, but don't fall in love with a project or a company, because there lies burnout. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28306750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28306750

starbugs 3y ago
> but don't fall in love with a project or a company, because there lies burnout. One part of me agrees. The other part says: But if I wouldn't have fallen in love with what I was doing to begin with, I would never have reached the point of ability that I did reach. Maybe the only solution to this is to take a break, then try to learn to open your heart again and risk being disappointed once more. Maybe this time, you will be able to recognize it before it's "too late". I don't know.
- RemoteIsHeaven 3y ago
  > I would never have reached the point of ability that I did reach I think you're conflating skill and ability with impact and expectations. Early on in your life, your expectations could have been to gain tremendous skill and grow your abilities. You probably didn't care that much if your work went into the trash because in the process, you learned some extremely important and valuable skills. That journey itself made it all worth it and met your expectations. Over time, as you become more skillful and able, your expectations could change to seeing your work having real impact on the world instead. This is perhaps, to you, now there's marginal return on being even more skillful and able. You ask "what's the end goal and did I reach it?" > risk being disappointed once more. Maybe this time, you will be able to recognize it before it's "too late". I don't know I mentioned in my own comment, the root cause of burnout - be it coding or otherwise, is when expectations don't match reality. If you're a developer, your impact and outcome is beholden to management, so even through you might not realize it, part of your jobsearch now has to focus on ensuring you detect great management - and you make it a part of your interview to locate them. The real solution to not being burned out: work with a team that actually knows what they are doing and have strong fundamentals.
paulcole 3y ago
> It's very common. This is like thinking that most comedians are depressed. The average/happy ones make for much less interesting stories. Yeah there’s lots of HN posts about “burnt out” developers but does that really mean it’s common? There’s lots of programmers.
- lolinder 3y ago
  I didn't make this clear in the original post I'm not just surveying HN queries to come to the conclusion that it's common. I'm currently in a management role at a highly mission-driven org, and helping people avoid burnout is a constant discussion because nearly everyone on the team has either been through it or at risk of it. (The high burnout rates aren't because of external pressure, it's because the team is mostly here because they deeply care about the mission.)
  - paulcole 3y ago
    Here's an idea: stop talking about it. If somebody's "burnt out" (for whatever definition of that you want to come up with), then sometimes it's just better for them to quit. It's not a great use of your time as a leader to be constantly discussing this. If you've enacted change that allows motivated people to work where you work without "burn out" or you believe those changes are impossible to enact, what else is there for you to do? If the root of the problem is that people are too wrapped up in the mission, look for people who don't care quite as much the next time you're hiring. Or keep talking about burnout forever. That's an option, too.
    - johhns4 3y ago
      If it is a constant issue where dedicated employees feel burnt out, then of course it is his business. I don't think the solution is to find less engaged people to work. It's not just about the employees, it is also about the general work and the value the team will bring. Maybe hiring low effort people will solve the problem, but then again so will no employees at all as well I suppose. As a manager, you should work towards keeping people engaged, doing good work, while making sure they don't burn out. If people are on the brink of burn out, it's not a "it's their own fault for caring about their work." It's because they're trying to do their actual jobs and care enough about the results. I find this trend where we're just blaming people that burn out for caring about the work they do interesting, what's the end result? Just a bunch of people playing politics and laying around waiting for the day to end? I rather work with someone that cares and does a good job but just needs a break, give them support so they can do their jobs, rather than force them to quit 'because they're a pain in the ass' for giving a shit.

starbugs 3y ago

> but don't fall in love with a project or a company, because there lies burnout. One part of me agrees. The other part says: But if I wouldn't have fallen in love with what I was doing to begin with, I would never have reached the point of ability that I did reach. Maybe the only solution to this is to take a break, then try to learn to open your heart again and risk being disappointed once more. Maybe this time, you will be able to recognize it before it's "too late". I don't know.

RemoteIsHeaven 3y ago
> I would never have reached the point of ability that I did reach I think you're conflating skill and ability with impact and expectations. Early on in your life, your expectations could have been to gain tremendous skill and grow your abilities. You probably didn't care that much if your work went into the trash because in the process, you learned some extremely important and valuable skills. That journey itself made it all worth it and met your expectations. Over time, as you become more skillful and able, your expectations could change to seeing your work having real impact on the world instead. This is perhaps, to you, now there's marginal return on being even more skillful and able. You ask "what's the end goal and did I reach it?" > risk being disappointed once more. Maybe this time, you will be able to recognize it before it's "too late". I don't know I mentioned in my own comment, the root cause of burnout - be it coding or otherwise, is when expectations don't match reality. If you're a developer, your impact and outcome is beholden to management, so even through you might not realize it, part of your jobsearch now has to focus on ensuring you detect great management - and you make it a part of your interview to locate them. The real solution to not being burned out: work with a team that actually knows what they are doing and have strong fundamentals.

paulcole 3y ago

> It's very common. This is like thinking that most comedians are depressed. The average/happy ones make for much less interesting stories. Yeah there’s lots of HN posts about “burnt out” developers but does that really mean it’s common? There’s lots of programmers.

lolinder 3y ago
I didn't make this clear in the original post I'm not just surveying HN queries to come to the conclusion that it's common. I'm currently in a management role at a highly mission-driven org, and helping people avoid burnout is a constant discussion because nearly everyone on the team has either been through it or at risk of it. (The high burnout rates aren't because of external pressure, it's because the team is mostly here because they deeply care about the mission.)
- paulcole 3y ago
  Here's an idea: stop talking about it. If somebody's "burnt out" (for whatever definition of that you want to come up with), then sometimes it's just better for them to quit. It's not a great use of your time as a leader to be constantly discussing this. If you've enacted change that allows motivated people to work where you work without "burn out" or you believe those changes are impossible to enact, what else is there for you to do? If the root of the problem is that people are too wrapped up in the mission, look for people who don't care quite as much the next time you're hiring. Or keep talking about burnout forever. That's an option, too.
  - johhns4 3y ago
    If it is a constant issue where dedicated employees feel burnt out, then of course it is his business. I don't think the solution is to find less engaged people to work. It's not just about the employees, it is also about the general work and the value the team will bring. Maybe hiring low effort people will solve the problem, but then again so will no employees at all as well I suppose. As a manager, you should work towards keeping people engaged, doing good work, while making sure they don't burn out. If people are on the brink of burn out, it's not a "it's their own fault for caring about their work." It's because they're trying to do their actual jobs and care enough about the results. I find this trend where we're just blaming people that burn out for caring about the work they do interesting, what's the end result? Just a bunch of people playing politics and laying around waiting for the day to end? I rather work with someone that cares and does a good job but just needs a break, give them support so they can do their jobs, rather than force them to quit 'because they're a pain in the ass' for giving a shit.