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This is pretty cool: basically, recent ARM extensions make emulation of just about anything a lot easier. Which got me to wonder: what if Apple were able to in

This is pretty cool: basically, recent ARM extensions make emulation of just about anything a lot easier. Which got me to wonder: what if Apple were able to introduce a "MacOS subsystem for Windows", which could run most x64 binaries for the latter platform? The only app that keeps me from switching to my M3 MacBook full-time is Visual Studio (and Mikrotik WinBox, to some extent, but that runs just fine under Wine). If I could run VS without tanking battery life, that would be sort-of huge...

my123 3y ago
> Which got me to wonder: what if Apple were able to introduce a "MacOS subsystem for Windows", which could run most x64 binaries for the latter platform? Was attempted by Apple but abandoned ages ago, around Leopard times. What they do nowadays is to keep good enough platform support to be able to use Wine.
- vintagedave 3y ago
  Do you have more information? I recall _rumors_ about Apple adding a feature for Windows apps on Mac in those days, but nothing concrete. I'd love to hear if this was ever more than rumour!
  - my123 3y ago
    Was more than a rumor. https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2007-November/thread.html#60851 https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2007-November/th... some remaining notes of that bizarre episode
    - saagarjha 3y ago
      Are you sure your link isn’t broken?
      - vintagedave 3y ago
        This thread looks like it: https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2007-November/060846.html https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2007-November/06...
flyinglizard 3y ago
I use native ARM VS under MacOS just fine, although MS announced end of life for it this August.
- TillE 3y ago
  "Visual Studio for Mac" never had any relation to Visual Studio proper, it was just a rebranded Xamarin Studio. It didn't support C++ at all.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Eventually they started sharing some .NET infrastructure, until they decided to kill it.
cesaref 3y ago
Two approaches that spring to mind would be to run VSCode on the Mac rather than Visual Studio - you might find it's decent enough and does what you need. If you need the full Visual Studio experience, then another option would be the Windows/Arm64 build of Visual Studio, and run that on a virtual box.
- PreInternet01 3y ago
  > the Windows/Arm64 build of Visual Studio There is no such thing. "Visual Studio for Mac" is a re-spin of MonoDevelop, and doesn't compare to the actual VS in any way, shape or form. The closest you can get to VS-on-ARM-Mac right now is using a JetBrains IDE, but, as useful as these are, it's really no competition...
  - my123 3y ago
    No. The full-fat Visual Studio is native arm64 nowadays!
    - vardump 3y ago
      Do need to have Parallels and Windows installation on macOS. But other than that, can run a native version of Visual Studio on ARM64.
    - PreInternet01 3y ago
      As they say on Wikipedia: [Citation needed] Where can I get this 'full fat' ARM build of VS? I'll settle for a Win64-ARM release, but I'll personally provision a botnet to upvote you to Mars in case you point me to an Apple-Silicon-on-MacOS DMG...
      - hyperrail 3y ago
        The same place you download the x86 build: visualstudio.com See: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visualstudio/arm64-visual-studio-is-officially-here/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visualstudio/arm64-visual-stu...
Someone 3y ago
> what if Apple were able to introduce a "MacOS subsystem for Windows” Where would they get the ‘for Windows’ part? They would eiher have to use Wine (which isn’t 100% compatible), license Windows from Microsoft ($$$), or write their own Wine (takes time) > If I could run VS without tanking battery life There’s no guarantee emulating Windows would be as energy-efficient as running MacOS. Also, if it did, that would open the door for third parties abandoning MacOS (it runs fine "MacOS subsystem for Windows”, so why would we spend time on a Mac port?), just as happened with “OS/2 subsystem for Windows” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#OS/2_2.1_and_Windows_compatibility_(1993) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#OS/2_2.1_and_Windows_comp...)
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > They would eiher have to use Wine (which isn’t 100% compatible) If anything, Apple can afford to shove a few millions onto Wine. Most of the heavy lifting has already been done, you can run a lot of Windows apps with just a few issues. The nasty exceptions tend to be anything involving DRM and anti-cheat, as well as stuff requiring interfacing with external hardware directly.
  - xattt 3y ago
    This was a rumour already in the mid-2000s already, either for Leopard or Snow Leopard. I feel old for witnessing rumour cycles start over again.
ChuckMcM 3y ago
Has a real Transmeta vibe. I wonder if Dave Ditzel is working for Arm these days.

my123 3y ago

> Which got me to wonder: what if Apple were able to introduce a "MacOS subsystem for Windows", which could run most x64 binaries for the latter platform? Was attempted by Apple but abandoned ages ago, around Leopard times. What they do nowadays is to keep good enough platform support to be able to use Wine.

vintagedave 3y ago
Do you have more information? I recall _rumors_ about Apple adding a feature for Windows apps on Mac in those days, but nothing concrete. I'd love to hear if this was ever more than rumour!
- my123 3y ago
  Was more than a rumor. https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2007-November/thread.html#60851 https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2007-November/th... some remaining notes of that bizarre episode
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    Are you sure your link isn’t broken?
    - vintagedave 3y ago
      This thread looks like it: https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2007-November/060846.html https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2007-November/06...

flyinglizard 3y ago

I use native ARM VS under MacOS just fine, although MS announced end of life for it this August.

TillE 3y ago
"Visual Studio for Mac" never had any relation to Visual Studio proper, it was just a rebranded Xamarin Studio. It didn't support C++ at all.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Eventually they started sharing some .NET infrastructure, until they decided to kill it.

cesaref 3y ago

Two approaches that spring to mind would be to run VSCode on the Mac rather than Visual Studio - you might find it's decent enough and does what you need. If you need the full Visual Studio experience, then another option would be the Windows/Arm64 build of Visual Studio, and run that on a virtual box.

PreInternet01 3y ago
> the Windows/Arm64 build of Visual Studio There is no such thing. "Visual Studio for Mac" is a re-spin of MonoDevelop, and doesn't compare to the actual VS in any way, shape or form. The closest you can get to VS-on-ARM-Mac right now is using a JetBrains IDE, but, as useful as these are, it's really no competition...
- my123 3y ago
  No. The full-fat Visual Studio is native arm64 nowadays!
  - vardump 3y ago
    Do need to have Parallels and Windows installation on macOS. But other than that, can run a native version of Visual Studio on ARM64.
  - PreInternet01 3y ago
    As they say on Wikipedia: [Citation needed] Where can I get this 'full fat' ARM build of VS? I'll settle for a Win64-ARM release, but I'll personally provision a botnet to upvote you to Mars in case you point me to an Apple-Silicon-on-MacOS DMG...
    - hyperrail 3y ago
      The same place you download the x86 build: visualstudio.com See: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visualstudio/arm64-visual-studio-is-officially-here/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/visualstudio/arm64-visual-stu...

Someone 3y ago

> what if Apple were able to introduce a "MacOS subsystem for Windows” Where would they get the ‘for Windows’ part? They would eiher have to use Wine (which isn’t 100% compatible), license Windows from Microsoft ($$$), or write their own Wine (takes time) > If I could run VS without tanking battery life There’s no guarantee emulating Windows would be as energy-efficient as running MacOS. Also, if it did, that would open the door for third parties abandoning MacOS (it runs fine "MacOS subsystem for Windows”, so why would we spend time on a Mac port?), just as happened with “OS/2 subsystem for Windows” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#OS/2_2.1_and_Windows_compatibility_(1993) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2#OS/2_2.1_and_Windows_comp...)

mschuster91 3y ago
> They would eiher have to use Wine (which isn’t 100% compatible) If anything, Apple can afford to shove a few millions onto Wine. Most of the heavy lifting has already been done, you can run a lot of Windows apps with just a few issues. The nasty exceptions tend to be anything involving DRM and anti-cheat, as well as stuff requiring interfacing with external hardware directly.
- xattt 3y ago
  This was a rumour already in the mid-2000s already, either for Leopard or Snow Leopard. I feel old for witnessing rumour cycles start over again.

ChuckMcM 3y ago

Has a real Transmeta vibe. I wonder if Dave Ditzel is working for Arm these days.