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> The fact that it has dragged on as long as it has being due to Western interference is incontrovertible. It is disputable. If Ukrainian forces were defeated

> The fact that it has dragged on as long as it has being due to Western interference is incontrovertible. It is disputable. If Ukrainian forces were defeated conventionally, the resistance would just move underground, to a guerilla warfare. But it's a strange argument. On one hand it's factual, but what do you want to say with that? That Ukraine completely subjugated by Russia would be preferable to the current state? For whom? Ukrainians clearly prefer the current state of things over subjugation, but then people like you basically claim that they're wrong in their preference.

riehwvfbk 3y ago
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- rightbyte 3y ago
  Getting crushed between superpowers is probably one of the worst national nightmares. You can just hope your elite is intellectual(?) enough to not put themself in that position on your behalf. I wonder how much such disconcert for drafting is due to running low on nationalistic types that more or less volunteer. I think most people just fake their nationalistic support to not be beaten with sticks or whatever, when it really comes down to it, they bail if possible. I guess there is a reason the borders are closed for men draft dodging. I mean, there surely can't be a greater part of the community that would by their own free will put them self into a trench, than would volunteer to run as a coach or whatever the local soccer team or equivalent.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  There are polls for that, e.g. https://www.voanews.com/a/new-poll-reveals-how-ukrainians-feel-about-war-future/7303180.html https://www.voanews.com/a/new-poll-reveals-how-ukrainians-fe... > “Although there is some evidence of fatigue, Ukrainians overall remain committed to winning the war,” Ray said. Continued approval of the army and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, she added, are key to victory. > Ukrainians are deeply confident in their military, with approval ratings at a record high of 95%, according to Gallup. Support for Zelenskyy has faltered slightly but is still overwhelmingly strong at 81%. ... > Just look at the blooming garden that is liberated Iraq. That's a weird example. Why not look at the nearby Baltics or Poland instead, who similarly to Ukraine, has chosen West as opposed to Russia.
  - riehwvfbk 3y ago
    I don't think it's weird at all. Also, Poland has always been Western aligned (Catholicism and all). Kosovo would be a better example of a switch after a conflict, and it is far from blooming. Ukraine has been the meeting point of the West (basically Poland) and East (basically Russia) for its entire history. The places at the interface of two cultures often see conflict. Ukraine does have a political party that argues for neutrality (Party of the Regions). Currently they are being cast as pro-Russian, but if you study their prewar position it is not the case at all.

riehwvfbk 3y ago

[flagged]

rightbyte 3y ago
Getting crushed between superpowers is probably one of the worst national nightmares. You can just hope your elite is intellectual(?) enough to not put themself in that position on your behalf. I wonder how much such disconcert for drafting is due to running low on nationalistic types that more or less volunteer. I think most people just fake their nationalistic support to not be beaten with sticks or whatever, when it really comes down to it, they bail if possible. I guess there is a reason the borders are closed for men draft dodging. I mean, there surely can't be a greater part of the community that would by their own free will put them self into a trench, than would volunteer to run as a coach or whatever the local soccer team or equivalent.
The_Colonel 3y ago
There are polls for that, e.g. https://www.voanews.com/a/new-poll-reveals-how-ukrainians-feel-about-war-future/7303180.html https://www.voanews.com/a/new-poll-reveals-how-ukrainians-fe... > “Although there is some evidence of fatigue, Ukrainians overall remain committed to winning the war,” Ray said. Continued approval of the army and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, she added, are key to victory. > Ukrainians are deeply confident in their military, with approval ratings at a record high of 95%, according to Gallup. Support for Zelenskyy has faltered slightly but is still overwhelmingly strong at 81%. ... > Just look at the blooming garden that is liberated Iraq. That's a weird example. Why not look at the nearby Baltics or Poland instead, who similarly to Ukraine, has chosen West as opposed to Russia.
- riehwvfbk 3y ago
  I don't think it's weird at all. Also, Poland has always been Western aligned (Catholicism and all). Kosovo would be a better example of a switch after a conflict, and it is far from blooming. Ukraine has been the meeting point of the West (basically Poland) and East (basically Russia) for its entire history. The places at the interface of two cultures often see conflict. Ukraine does have a political party that argues for neutrality (Party of the Regions). Currently they are being cast as pro-Russian, but if you study their prewar position it is not the case at all.