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How about "user programmable computers," whereas phones are "terminals". I mean, I agree with your point; but the distinction is there. We need some way to dif

How about "user programmable computers," whereas phones are "terminals". I mean, I agree with your point; but the distinction is there. We need some way to differentiate between computers for hacking and computers that are vending machines for the hacks of others

Dalewyn 3y ago
What meaningful distinction is there to be made? Computers are computers.
cesarb 3y ago
> How about "user programmable computers," whereas phones are "terminals". My install of Termux from F-Droid on my Android phone disagrees with that. While more limited than a PC, most smartphones can still be considered "user programmable computers".
fragmede 3y ago
Do we? Purists will claim that because I can't run xcode on an iphone, it doesn't count as a "real computer", and that's true, to some degree. the thing is, people who aren't programmers these days also use computers, and don't use them to compile binaries. Would we call a laptop that never has a compiler installed a "vending machine for the hacks of others"? (I'm not sure what that even means.) Would a chromebook be such a machine, up until a compiler is installed? Given that people run businesses off ipads; send/recieving emails, writing docs and spreadsheets, why do we draw the line for everybody at can-compile-on-machine? If a web developer using web vscode/ssh can do remote development on an ipad, why, again, is can-compile-on-mahine our important metric? It seems like an unnecessary purity test that doesn't stack up to the modern era of the Internet. If I write simple programs on a iPhone using Shortcuts, does it become a general purpose computer? It's programming, just with a UI and its own graphical language. How complex a program do you have to be able to "compile" in order for it to count as writing a program on device? Because there are tons of little programs being written using Shortcuts, (and also Pythonista), so you'll have to be more specific.
klelatti 3y ago
Is the definition of hacking writing code only for yourself? Surely (most of) the point of writing code is for other people to use it. If you ignore the majority of devices out there that you can write code for then that's not really a sensible definition of market share.

Dalewyn 3y ago

What meaningful distinction is there to be made? Computers are computers.

cesarb 3y ago

> How about "user programmable computers," whereas phones are "terminals". My install of Termux from F-Droid on my Android phone disagrees with that. While more limited than a PC, most smartphones can still be considered "user programmable computers".

fragmede 3y ago

Do we? Purists will claim that because I can't run xcode on an iphone, it doesn't count as a "real computer", and that's true, to some degree. the thing is, people who aren't programmers these days also use computers, and don't use them to compile binaries. Would we call a laptop that never has a compiler installed a "vending machine for the hacks of others"? (I'm not sure what that even means.) Would a chromebook be such a machine, up until a compiler is installed? Given that people run businesses off ipads; send/recieving emails, writing docs and spreadsheets, why do we draw the line for everybody at can-compile-on-machine? If a web developer using web vscode/ssh can do remote development on an ipad, why, again, is can-compile-on-mahine our important metric? It seems like an unnecessary purity test that doesn't stack up to the modern era of the Internet. If I write simple programs on a iPhone using Shortcuts, does it become a general purpose computer? It's programming, just with a UI and its own graphical language. How complex a program do you have to be able to "compile" in order for it to count as writing a program on device? Because there are tons of little programs being written using Shortcuts, (and also Pythonista), so you'll have to be more specific.

klelatti 3y ago

Is the definition of hacking writing code only for yourself? Surely (most of) the point of writing code is for other people to use it. If you ignore the majority of devices out there that you can write code for then that's not really a sensible definition of market share.