4 ms·

I don't follow. You can grab leg and drag owner around. How's tail different?

marginalia_nu 3y ago
A leg has rigidity due to its endoskeleton, as well as strong muscles with good leverage, which when conditions are right gives it insane strength as it can act as a mechanical lever. Since a tail does not have a rigid endoskeleton, it can not act well as a lever. It's functionally a rope attached to your butt. Like even if you go full kangaroo mode and make the tail more muscular than the legs, making the tail rigid by flexing really hard, it basically turns into an inefficient leg with enormous mechanical disadvantages.
- icegreentea2 3y ago
  But the lack of ridigity also means that it's actually quite hard to control someone through it. If you grab someone's leg, especially near the foot/ankle, you are relying on the rigidity of the joints to be able to control their torso (and therefore their ability to fight back). The most disadvantageous position to be in is to have someone behind you, while they fully control your ankle/foot. Now you can't fully turn your body to face your opponent. For a sufficiently flexible tail, that would not be the case. Some could be behind you and control your tail near the tip, and you could still fully turn into your attacker with your torso. This isn't to say that a tail can't become a liability.
  - lazide 3y ago
    We have two legs, so grabbing one is a good way to get kicked in the face (or elsewhere). A flexible tail doesn’t have that disadvantage to the grabber, especially if longer than a leg.
    - kjkjadksj 3y ago
      You can’t land a kick when someone has your foot. Gravity exists, you will immediately fall onto your butt as soon as you lift the other leg.
      - lazide 3y ago
        On the ground is perfect for kicking them in the nuts, leg/torso strikes, sweeping their legs, or various control locks. It's a near ideal place to be to also get your opponent on the ground. You can also get a solid kick or sweep in, or throw them off balance on the way down too, if you're ready for it. You might find BJJ pretty interesting. [https://renzogracieacademy.com/about/what-is-brazilian-jiu-jitsu-bjj/ https://renzogracieacademy.com/about/what-is-brazilian-jiu-j...], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0edxg2fFmw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0edxg2fFmw] Judo teaches how to deal with it quite well too. The legs are the strongest part of a human, the arms don't compare at all. And fighting from the ground can be VERY effective if you know what you're doing. Or don't just curl up and wait to die. Ideally you'd be on your feet and able to move faster of course, and I wouldn't recommend against an opponent with a spear or other ranged weapon - but then they wouldn't be trying to grab my foot or leg anyway eh?
        LorenzoGood 3y ago
        Although when striking is involved, leg locks loose much of their effectiveness.
        lazide 3y ago
        It's always a race to get the critical hit or lock in. But unless the 'grabee' doesn't do anything, someone grabbing one foot from someone is likely using both hands (and most of their upper body) to attempt to control it - and there is a second foot/leg out there free to cause a lot of damage if they're willing. It's not a 'one and done'/'game over' scenario by any stretch of the imagination if the party is even a little motivated. Though I suspect most folks in this thread have no exposure to an actual fight beyond watching a video somewhere, so....
        LorenzoGood 3y ago
        For me the main example of leg locks failing in MMA is Ilia Toporia's knockout of Ryan Hall in the UFC. Also, many powerful leg locks entries fail to succeed in MMA, due to overcommitment of limbs.
Macha 3y ago
Legs have a lot more muscle to allow the owner to resist, along with the downward weight of the body somewhat adding to stability?

A leg has rigidity due to its endoskeleton, as well as strong muscles with good leverage, which when conditions are right gives it insane strength as it can act as a mechanical lever. Since a tail does not have a rigid endoskeleton, it can not act well as a lever. It's functionally a rope attached to your butt. Like even if you go full kangaroo mode and make the tail more muscular than the legs, making the tail rigid by flexing really hard, it basically turns into an inefficient leg with enormous mechanical disadvantages.

icegreentea2 3y ago
But the lack of ridigity also means that it's actually quite hard to control someone through it. If you grab someone's leg, especially near the foot/ankle, you are relying on the rigidity of the joints to be able to control their torso (and therefore their ability to fight back). The most disadvantageous position to be in is to have someone behind you, while they fully control your ankle/foot. Now you can't fully turn your body to face your opponent. For a sufficiently flexible tail, that would not be the case. Some could be behind you and control your tail near the tip, and you could still fully turn into your attacker with your torso. This isn't to say that a tail can't become a liability.
- lazide 3y ago
  We have two legs, so grabbing one is a good way to get kicked in the face (or elsewhere). A flexible tail doesn’t have that disadvantage to the grabber, especially if longer than a leg.
  - kjkjadksj 3y ago
    You can’t land a kick when someone has your foot. Gravity exists, you will immediately fall onto your butt as soon as you lift the other leg.
    - lazide 3y ago
      On the ground is perfect for kicking them in the nuts, leg/torso strikes, sweeping their legs, or various control locks. It's a near ideal place to be to also get your opponent on the ground. You can also get a solid kick or sweep in, or throw them off balance on the way down too, if you're ready for it. You might find BJJ pretty interesting. [https://renzogracieacademy.com/about/what-is-brazilian-jiu-jitsu-bjj/ https://renzogracieacademy.com/about/what-is-brazilian-jiu-j...], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0edxg2fFmw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0edxg2fFmw] Judo teaches how to deal with it quite well too. The legs are the strongest part of a human, the arms don't compare at all. And fighting from the ground can be VERY effective if you know what you're doing. Or don't just curl up and wait to die. Ideally you'd be on your feet and able to move faster of course, and I wouldn't recommend against an opponent with a spear or other ranged weapon - but then they wouldn't be trying to grab my foot or leg anyway eh?
      - LorenzoGood 3y ago
        Although when striking is involved, leg locks loose much of their effectiveness.
        lazide 3y ago
        It's always a race to get the critical hit or lock in. But unless the 'grabee' doesn't do anything, someone grabbing one foot from someone is likely using both hands (and most of their upper body) to attempt to control it - and there is a second foot/leg out there free to cause a lot of damage if they're willing. It's not a 'one and done'/'game over' scenario by any stretch of the imagination if the party is even a little motivated. Though I suspect most folks in this thread have no exposure to an actual fight beyond watching a video somewhere, so....
        LorenzoGood 3y ago
        For me the main example of leg locks failing in MMA is Ilia Toporia's knockout of Ryan Hall in the UFC. Also, many powerful leg locks entries fail to succeed in MMA, due to overcommitment of limbs.

Macha 3y ago

Legs have a lot more muscle to allow the owner to resist, along with the downward weight of the body somewhat adding to stability?