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I was talking to a friend, he was asking how come I always mention the deep state[0] in the context of western countries, but never in the context of ... others

I was talking to a friend, he was asking how come I always mention the deep state[0] in the context of western countries, but never in the context of ... others. And it dawned on me that maybe it's because the deep state is the state in those other countries (explicit) whereas we mask it with a thin layer of democracy (implicit). I dunno, your comments just triggered this memory. [0] (not in a hugely conspiratorial way, just the bureaucracy, bureaucrats, lobbying that don't change between transitions are are sort of running the place)

082349872349872 3y ago
If you haven't seen them, Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister are excellent (up to a point?) explorations of the agency issues between a permanent civil service and an ephemeral political leadership. (see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Eban#Family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Eban#Family ) > whereas we mask it with a thin layer of democracy I understand China has a yearly meeting where a few thousand regionally elected delegates get together and vote on various national proposals for the year to come... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_People%27s_Congress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_People%27s_Congress http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Special_12_2/index.htm http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Special_12_2/index.ht...
- ThalesX 3y ago
  Just saw the 1st episode, great start, thank you for the recommendation!
082349872349872 3y ago
> mask it with a thin layer of democracy for what's passing as democracy in the RF, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39305877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39305877
csomar 3y ago
> whereas we mask it with a thin layer of democracy (implicit) Pretty much every country does that; or at least every kinda-functional country. But they do it differently (their local version) which might not be quite obvious to you externally if you don't understand the culture.
nyokodo 3y ago
> we mask it with a thin layer of democracy Clearly all governmental systems are designed to broadly maintain a status quo, and there aren’t really any truly democratic governments, but societies like the United States are still significantly democratic in their bones because, even with centuries of trying, power is nowhere near as centralized as in totalitarian regimes. Local and state governments have the greatest influence over the day to day of ordinary people and ordinary people are much more capable of influencing them.
- ThalesX 3y ago
  > even with centuries of trying, power is nowhere near as centralized as in totalitarian regimes My grandma's house is older than the centuries the US has existed. > Local and state governments have the greatest influence over the day to day of ordinary people and ordinary people are much more capable of influencing them Is this actually true? Are ordinary people more capable of influence than lobbying groups?

082349872349872 3y ago

If you haven't seen them, Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister are excellent (up to a point?) explorations of the agency issues between a permanent civil service and an ephemeral political leadership. (see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Eban#Family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Eban#Family ) > whereas we mask it with a thin layer of democracy I understand China has a yearly meeting where a few thousand regionally elected delegates get together and vote on various national proposals for the year to come... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_People%27s_Congress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_People%27s_Congress http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Special_12_2/index.htm http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Special_12_2/index.ht...

ThalesX 3y ago
Just saw the 1st episode, great start, thank you for the recommendation!

082349872349872 3y ago

> mask it with a thin layer of democracy for what's passing as democracy in the RF, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39305877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39305877

csomar 3y ago

> whereas we mask it with a thin layer of democracy (implicit) Pretty much every country does that; or at least every kinda-functional country. But they do it differently (their local version) which might not be quite obvious to you externally if you don't understand the culture.

nyokodo 3y ago

> we mask it with a thin layer of democracy Clearly all governmental systems are designed to broadly maintain a status quo, and there aren’t really any truly democratic governments, but societies like the United States are still significantly democratic in their bones because, even with centuries of trying, power is nowhere near as centralized as in totalitarian regimes. Local and state governments have the greatest influence over the day to day of ordinary people and ordinary people are much more capable of influencing them.

ThalesX 3y ago
> even with centuries of trying, power is nowhere near as centralized as in totalitarian regimes My grandma's house is older than the centuries the US has existed. > Local and state governments have the greatest influence over the day to day of ordinary people and ordinary people are much more capable of influencing them Is this actually true? Are ordinary people more capable of influence than lobbying groups?