6 ms·

This basically means 'we're migrating everything to linux'. The outcome will probably be good for the opensource world.

082349872349872 3y ago
When Red Star OS (붉은별) was discussed a while ago, all the built-in telemetry and tracking was pointed out. I think the intervening years have proven that what the DPRK did explicitly, all the western proprietary OS vendors have also done, implicitly.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ThalesX 3y ago
  I was talking to a friend, he was asking how come I always mention the deep state[0] in the context of western countries, but never in the context of ... others. And it dawned on me that maybe it's because the deep state is the state in those other countries (explicit) whereas we mask it with a thin layer of democracy (implicit). I dunno, your comments just triggered this memory. [0] (not in a hugely conspiratorial way, just the bureaucracy, bureaucrats, lobbying that don't change between transitions are are sort of running the place)
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    If you haven't seen them, Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister are excellent (up to a point?) explorations of the agency issues between a permanent civil service and an ephemeral political leadership. (see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Eban#Family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Eban#Family ) > whereas we mask it with a thin layer of democracy I understand China has a yearly meeting where a few thousand regionally elected delegates get together and vote on various national proposals for the year to come... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_People%27s_Congress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_People%27s_Congress http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Special_12_2/index.htm http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Special_12_2/index.ht...
    - ThalesX 3y ago
      Just saw the 1st episode, great start, thank you for the recommendation!
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    > mask it with a thin layer of democracy for what's passing as democracy in the RF, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39305877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39305877
  - csomar 3y ago
    > whereas we mask it with a thin layer of democracy (implicit) Pretty much every country does that; or at least every kinda-functional country. But they do it differently (their local version) which might not be quite obvious to you externally if you don't understand the culture.
  - nyokodo 3y ago
    > we mask it with a thin layer of democracy Clearly all governmental systems are designed to broadly maintain a status quo, and there aren’t really any truly democratic governments, but societies like the United States are still significantly democratic in their bones because, even with centuries of trying, power is nowhere near as centralized as in totalitarian regimes. Local and state governments have the greatest influence over the day to day of ordinary people and ordinary people are much more capable of influencing them.
    - ThalesX 3y ago
      > even with centuries of trying, power is nowhere near as centralized as in totalitarian regimes My grandma's house is older than the centuries the US has existed. > Local and state governments have the greatest influence over the day to day of ordinary people and ordinary people are much more capable of influencing them Is this actually true? Are ordinary people more capable of influence than lobbying groups?
pjmlp 3y ago
It doesn't mean they contribute to upstream. Ironically while UNIX clones might be the outcome of trade wars, that doesn't mean FOSS will benefit from it. Specially when IP, national security, and code hosting servers become part of the whole picture. Long term we will be back to cold war days where Open means ISO and Open Group kind of paper standards instead of actual code.
- cyanydeez 3y ago
  Well, when more coders learn foss derived tools, they'll certainly end up outside the confines and then contribute'
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    If we are back to cold war days of computing, there will be a quite different way of contributing, forget about anything FOSS from the last 30 years. Started coding in 1986, and can clearly see how the ongoing trade and actual wars, can bring us back to those computing days.
    - cyanydeez 3y ago
      Thered at least be more security evaluations.
- papichulo2023 3y ago
  Upstreaming stuff seems way easier than having to patch everything every update?
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Not when it is a matter of national security.
    - papichulo2023 3y ago
      I agree, but no sensitive stuff should be upstreamed.
pyinstallwoes 3y ago
How does that have anything to do with linux? It's the microcode.

When Red Star OS (붉은별) was discussed a while ago, all the built-in telemetry and tracking was pointed out. I think the intervening years have proven that what the DPRK did explicitly, all the western proprietary OS vendors have also done, implicitly.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ThalesX 3y ago
I was talking to a friend, he was asking how come I always mention the deep state[0] in the context of western countries, but never in the context of ... others. And it dawned on me that maybe it's because the deep state is the state in those other countries (explicit) whereas we mask it with a thin layer of democracy (implicit). I dunno, your comments just triggered this memory. [0] (not in a hugely conspiratorial way, just the bureaucracy, bureaucrats, lobbying that don't change between transitions are are sort of running the place)
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  If you haven't seen them, Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister are excellent (up to a point?) explorations of the agency issues between a permanent civil service and an ephemeral political leadership. (see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Eban#Family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Eban#Family ) > whereas we mask it with a thin layer of democracy I understand China has a yearly meeting where a few thousand regionally elected delegates get together and vote on various national proposals for the year to come... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_People%27s_Congress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_People%27s_Congress http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Special_12_2/index.htm http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Special_12_2/index.ht...
  - ThalesX 3y ago
    Just saw the 1st episode, great start, thank you for the recommendation!
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  > mask it with a thin layer of democracy for what's passing as democracy in the RF, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39305877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39305877
- csomar 3y ago
  > whereas we mask it with a thin layer of democracy (implicit) Pretty much every country does that; or at least every kinda-functional country. But they do it differently (their local version) which might not be quite obvious to you externally if you don't understand the culture.
- nyokodo 3y ago
  > we mask it with a thin layer of democracy Clearly all governmental systems are designed to broadly maintain a status quo, and there aren’t really any truly democratic governments, but societies like the United States are still significantly democratic in their bones because, even with centuries of trying, power is nowhere near as centralized as in totalitarian regimes. Local and state governments have the greatest influence over the day to day of ordinary people and ordinary people are much more capable of influencing them.
  - ThalesX 3y ago
    > even with centuries of trying, power is nowhere near as centralized as in totalitarian regimes My grandma's house is older than the centuries the US has existed. > Local and state governments have the greatest influence over the day to day of ordinary people and ordinary people are much more capable of influencing them Is this actually true? Are ordinary people more capable of influence than lobbying groups?

pjmlp 3y ago

It doesn't mean they contribute to upstream. Ironically while UNIX clones might be the outcome of trade wars, that doesn't mean FOSS will benefit from it. Specially when IP, national security, and code hosting servers become part of the whole picture. Long term we will be back to cold war days where Open means ISO and Open Group kind of paper standards instead of actual code.

cyanydeez 3y ago
Well, when more coders learn foss derived tools, they'll certainly end up outside the confines and then contribute'
- pjmlp 3y ago
  If we are back to cold war days of computing, there will be a quite different way of contributing, forget about anything FOSS from the last 30 years. Started coding in 1986, and can clearly see how the ongoing trade and actual wars, can bring us back to those computing days.
  - cyanydeez 3y ago
    Thered at least be more security evaluations.
papichulo2023 3y ago
Upstreaming stuff seems way easier than having to patch everything every update?
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Not when it is a matter of national security.
  - papichulo2023 3y ago
    I agree, but no sensitive stuff should be upstreamed.

pyinstallwoes 3y ago

How does that have anything to do with linux? It's the microcode.