3 ms·

This doesn't seem like anything that Microsoft is doing in a monopolistic way, though. I'm sure LibreOffice could do this if they wanted to. I'm sort of surpris

This doesn't seem like anything that Microsoft is doing in a monopolistic way, though. I'm sure LibreOffice could do this if they wanted to. I'm sort of surprised they don't, given LibreOffice presumably has access to JDBC.

kelnos 3y ago
> This doesn't seem like anything that Microsoft is doing in a monopolistic way, though. That's the thing that I was wondering about here. I don't really know this space very well, and still have bad feelings toward Microsoft for their behavior in the 80s and 90s, but is MS actually abusing their monopoly position here? I guess the article hinted at a few things; e.g. if you are an Office365 customer you have to be an Azure customer, and can't run it on AWS or GCP. But I didn't see a compelling case for how MS is using its Excel (or Office as a whole) dominance to actually harm consumers or competitors. Excel's features aren't magic and AFAIK don't require backroom deals to enable. Anyone can implement them, given a lot of time and hard work. I think the main compelling part was that MS doesn't have an incentive to focus on security as much as they should, because people will keep using Office365 regardless, as there are no viable alternatives. But that doesn't seem like an anti-trust issue to me. That's fixable through legally-mandated fines for security incidents, fines that actually hurt MS significantly, not just token fines that are shrugged off as the cost of doing business. Make it significantly cheaper for MS to develop a better security posture, and they probably will do just that.
- gwd 3y ago
  > I don't really know this space very well, and still have bad feelings toward Microsoft for their behavior in the 80s and 90s, but is MS actually abusing their monopoly position here? It's not illegal to have a monopoly, but one thing that's illegal (theoretically anyway) us using your monopoly in one area to gain market share in another area. But it is kind of counter-intuitive to say that the linchpin of the entire Microsoft juggernaut fundamentally rests on their amazingly functional spreadsheet (which it sort of sounds like constitutes an actually useable "no-code" platform). Supposing that were true, what would be the strategy for people trying to bring about "The Year of the Linux Desktop"? Try to get LibreOffice or Gnumeric up to parity? Or try to get documentation / education for Jupyter / Python up to parity?
WWLink 3y ago
If I had to point a finger at something I'd say it's probably how they bundle everything, market everything, have cultured decades of cult-like loyalty in business IT employees, and so on. That is, aside from the bundling I'm not sure MS has done anything particularly illegal or immoral? Just incredibly good business sense. And I say that as someone with a stubborn disdain for microsoft lol.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  I have the same issue. I also don't like MS, mostly for Azure reasons, but companies are sleepwalking into lock-in, for the reason you state: IT people are mostly Windows/AD/Exchange-centric, and Azure looks a little more like those tools. They're not being forced there. My worry is nebulous: Microsoft is somehow buying its way into everything - AI, OSS development, gaming, etc, and it feels insidious. However, it doesn't feel illegal at all. Governments might fancy some cash, and it's their right to write some rules to get that cash, but I don't see how in practice Microsoft is doing much obviously wrong.

kelnos 3y ago

> This doesn't seem like anything that Microsoft is doing in a monopolistic way, though. That's the thing that I was wondering about here. I don't really know this space very well, and still have bad feelings toward Microsoft for their behavior in the 80s and 90s, but is MS actually abusing their monopoly position here? I guess the article hinted at a few things; e.g. if you are an Office365 customer you have to be an Azure customer, and can't run it on AWS or GCP. But I didn't see a compelling case for how MS is using its Excel (or Office as a whole) dominance to actually harm consumers or competitors. Excel's features aren't magic and AFAIK don't require backroom deals to enable. Anyone can implement them, given a lot of time and hard work. I think the main compelling part was that MS doesn't have an incentive to focus on security as much as they should, because people will keep using Office365 regardless, as there are no viable alternatives. But that doesn't seem like an anti-trust issue to me. That's fixable through legally-mandated fines for security incidents, fines that actually hurt MS significantly, not just token fines that are shrugged off as the cost of doing business. Make it significantly cheaper for MS to develop a better security posture, and they probably will do just that.

gwd 3y ago
> I don't really know this space very well, and still have bad feelings toward Microsoft for their behavior in the 80s and 90s, but is MS actually abusing their monopoly position here? It's not illegal to have a monopoly, but one thing that's illegal (theoretically anyway) us using your monopoly in one area to gain market share in another area. But it is kind of counter-intuitive to say that the linchpin of the entire Microsoft juggernaut fundamentally rests on their amazingly functional spreadsheet (which it sort of sounds like constitutes an actually useable "no-code" platform). Supposing that were true, what would be the strategy for people trying to bring about "The Year of the Linux Desktop"? Try to get LibreOffice or Gnumeric up to parity? Or try to get documentation / education for Jupyter / Python up to parity?

WWLink 3y ago

If I had to point a finger at something I'd say it's probably how they bundle everything, market everything, have cultured decades of cult-like loyalty in business IT employees, and so on. That is, aside from the bundling I'm not sure MS has done anything particularly illegal or immoral? Just incredibly good business sense. And I say that as someone with a stubborn disdain for microsoft lol.

robertlagrant 3y ago
I have the same issue. I also don't like MS, mostly for Azure reasons, but companies are sleepwalking into lock-in, for the reason you state: IT people are mostly Windows/AD/Exchange-centric, and Azure looks a little more like those tools. They're not being forced there. My worry is nebulous: Microsoft is somehow buying its way into everything - AI, OSS development, gaming, etc, and it feels insidious. However, it doesn't feel illegal at all. Governments might fancy some cash, and it's their right to write some rules to get that cash, but I don't see how in practice Microsoft is doing much obviously wrong.