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Right, when most people complain about health care, they aren't complaining about quality of care when they get it. They're complaining about not being able to

Right, when most people complain about health care, they aren't complaining about quality of care when they get it. They're complaining about not being able to afford it. Or, it being too confusing. That's a problem with health insurance, and not with money. That's why some think that a national health care system that is designed primarily around effectiveness of distribution of payment, rather than extracting maximum profit from the flow of money between patient and provider, is the moral and effective solution. To your last point, rationing low availability health care is nothing new. Alcoholics can't get liver transplants for example. There's a whole field of bioethics that can surely answer some of those questions.

2devnull 3y ago
Oh I think most people who complain are upset by the attitude of medical workers and overall hubris inherent in the profession. It’s very correlated with wealth of the patient. Wealthy people can afford well paid happy doctors and nurses, nor stressed out overworked cynical disgruntled cogs in the hmo machine. Ymmv
Gormo 3y ago
> That's why some think that a national health care system that is designed primarily around effectiveness of distribution of payment, rather than extracting maximum profit from the flow of money between patient and provider, is the moral and effective solution. Why would we expect the incentives inherent in putting health care under the monopolistic control of those who seek political power to be any more favorable than those manifest in the current situation of apparent oligopolistic control by both profit-seekers and political-power-seekers? Where would this solution leave those who just want to obtain services directly from service providers, without any political or financial middlemen either taking a cut, usurping their agency, or homogenizing the market?
tayo42 3y ago
> they aren't complaining about quality of care when they get it. This isn't true. Plenty complaints about long waits for appointments, rushed appointments, not getting proper medicine. My wife recently couldn't get a specific potentially more effective medicine covered (it was in the end) because the insurance company wanted the dr to give her something cheaper.

2devnull 3y ago

Oh I think most people who complain are upset by the attitude of medical workers and overall hubris inherent in the profession. It’s very correlated with wealth of the patient. Wealthy people can afford well paid happy doctors and nurses, nor stressed out overworked cynical disgruntled cogs in the hmo machine. Ymmv

Gormo 3y ago

> That's why some think that a national health care system that is designed primarily around effectiveness of distribution of payment, rather than extracting maximum profit from the flow of money between patient and provider, is the moral and effective solution. Why would we expect the incentives inherent in putting health care under the monopolistic control of those who seek political power to be any more favorable than those manifest in the current situation of apparent oligopolistic control by both profit-seekers and political-power-seekers? Where would this solution leave those who just want to obtain services directly from service providers, without any political or financial middlemen either taking a cut, usurping their agency, or homogenizing the market?

tayo42 3y ago

> they aren't complaining about quality of care when they get it. This isn't true. Plenty complaints about long waits for appointments, rushed appointments, not getting proper medicine. My wife recently couldn't get a specific potentially more effective medicine covered (it was in the end) because the insurance company wanted the dr to give her something cheaper.