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I've learned over the years of traveling and speaking with ethnic Chinese and Chinese nationals that I make my acquaintance with, that there are numerous tragic

I've learned over the years of traveling and speaking with ethnic Chinese and Chinese nationals that I make my acquaintance with, that there are numerous tragic stories like this in China and throughout the diaspora. Many are only preserved through family oral traditions and many of those will die out with the population decline. I've heard it expressed that modern day China has a lot of spirit (energetic vigor), but is still seeking its soul (embodied contemplative wonderment and compassion for all around ourselves, as opposed to dogmatic spirituality per se), and was struck by how apt that was to political leadership in all nations, and to an equal or lesser extent their peoples, depending upon the nation.

woooooo 3y ago
What I've heard is that the great leap forward and associated famine are acknowledged in official accounts, but the cultural revolution is increasingly downplayed. The latter is more worrisome to me because it required enthusiastic participation by lots of normal people to get off the ground. That lesson should be remembered.
- rfrey 3y ago
  In the west we can't even seem to hold on to the lessons from 1930s-40s Europe, despite an incredible amount of documentation and retrospection. What hope is there when the history of the cultural revolution is being actively suppressed?
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    Somehow, our ancestors built a free democratic world without having all our advantages. As what we've taken for granted as been assaulted and damaged, it would be good to remember what they acheived, and how they did it, from much worse positions - without even a prior example or history to build on. They created democracy, women's rights, etc. despite almost an entire human history of doing otherwise. We only have to look back 10 years.
    - Cheer2171 3y ago
      The lack of modern technology is an advantage, not a disadvantage. It is harder to start any democratic revolution against authoritarianism now than in the past. The modern information age makes it harder, not easier. To search someone's papers, you used to have to get police officers to physically enter their home and break their locks, in front of all their neighbors. You used to need to enlist 5-10 people to spy on a single potential dissident 24/7, and that surveillance is easier to detect. To effectively spy on a population, you used to need to enlist 10-30% of the population to spy on their neighbors and filter reports. To get the people's attention, you didn't have to get your message through a chaotic attention economy powered by the platforms that filter the information overload. There was literally a public square where you could reach your audience by handing out hand produced pamphlets.
- yorwba 3y ago
  Between the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, there were the Four Cleanups, which are even less remembered, probably because they mostly affected the countryside and didn't hit urban citizens as hard as the Cultural Revolution did. From Huang Shu-min's The Spiral Road: We decided to attack the five bad elements first, to set an example for the villagers and to intimidate anyone who dared to challenge our authority. Members of the five bad elements were brought up to the podium and forced to kneel down facing the crowd. There was a middle-aged woman among the bad elements. The high-level cadre from the prefecture signaled a poor peasant to come and asked him at close earshot: 'Is that a "landlord's wife" (dizhupo)?' The poor peasant answered: 'Yes, cadre,' went up to that woman, and pressed her head down to the floor throughout the struggle session. At the end of the meeting the high-level cadre asked this poor peasant, 'Why did you force that woman's head down for so long? I thought that this campaign was supposed to avoid unnecessary physical abuse.' The poor peasant answered: 'But, cadre, I thought you had given me the order to force her "head down" (dizhetou)!'

woooooo 3y ago

What I've heard is that the great leap forward and associated famine are acknowledged in official accounts, but the cultural revolution is increasingly downplayed. The latter is more worrisome to me because it required enthusiastic participation by lots of normal people to get off the ground. That lesson should be remembered.

rfrey 3y ago
In the west we can't even seem to hold on to the lessons from 1930s-40s Europe, despite an incredible amount of documentation and retrospection. What hope is there when the history of the cultural revolution is being actively suppressed?
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Somehow, our ancestors built a free democratic world without having all our advantages. As what we've taken for granted as been assaulted and damaged, it would be good to remember what they acheived, and how they did it, from much worse positions - without even a prior example or history to build on. They created democracy, women's rights, etc. despite almost an entire human history of doing otherwise. We only have to look back 10 years.
  - Cheer2171 3y ago
    The lack of modern technology is an advantage, not a disadvantage. It is harder to start any democratic revolution against authoritarianism now than in the past. The modern information age makes it harder, not easier. To search someone's papers, you used to have to get police officers to physically enter their home and break their locks, in front of all their neighbors. You used to need to enlist 5-10 people to spy on a single potential dissident 24/7, and that surveillance is easier to detect. To effectively spy on a population, you used to need to enlist 10-30% of the population to spy on their neighbors and filter reports. To get the people's attention, you didn't have to get your message through a chaotic attention economy powered by the platforms that filter the information overload. There was literally a public square where you could reach your audience by handing out hand produced pamphlets.
yorwba 3y ago
Between the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, there were the Four Cleanups, which are even less remembered, probably because they mostly affected the countryside and didn't hit urban citizens as hard as the Cultural Revolution did. From Huang Shu-min's The Spiral Road: We decided to attack the five bad elements first, to set an example for the villagers and to intimidate anyone who dared to challenge our authority. Members of the five bad elements were brought up to the podium and forced to kneel down facing the crowd. There was a middle-aged woman among the bad elements. The high-level cadre from the prefecture signaled a poor peasant to come and asked him at close earshot: 'Is that a "landlord's wife" (dizhupo)?' The poor peasant answered: 'Yes, cadre,' went up to that woman, and pressed her head down to the floor throughout the struggle session. At the end of the meeting the high-level cadre asked this poor peasant, 'Why did you force that woman's head down for so long? I thought that this campaign was supposed to avoid unnecessary physical abuse.' The poor peasant answered: 'But, cadre, I thought you had given me the order to force her "head down" (dizhetou)!'