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Don’t know why it’s so difficult for some people to understand the paradox of tolerance. Allowing your media to be controlled by a foreign totalitarian adversar

Don’t know why it’s so difficult for some people to understand the paradox of tolerance. Allowing your media to be controlled by a foreign totalitarian adversary is a quick way to having your institutions and society undermined by them.

perihelions 3y ago
That is the standard argument for totalitarianism: safety and stability of society, at the expense of freedom. The US is doing something different.
- RandomLensman 3y ago
  Did the USSR have radio and TV stations in the US during the cold war? During WWII the US had a censorship operation - was that totalitarian?
  - defrost 3y ago
    Interestingly, this very question was asked and addressed here on HN 32 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39428141 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39428141
    - RandomLensman 3y ago
      Yes, by me - thank you for looping that discussion back in. It was meant to be rhetorical now - as the USSR did not have TV or radio stations in the US (but, yes, you could get USSR newspapers). Differentiating between different "attack vectors" isn't new.
  - ecronant 3y ago
    [dead]
Jaxkr 3y ago
Censoring foreign speech is also a slide towards totalitarianism... Imagine if the U.S. banned a Chinese book series because we were concerned it would "undermine our institutions and society". Does that sound like a free country?
- cylemons 3y ago
  The problem here is that Tiktok is not merely "promoting totalitarianism", it is actively spying on it's users and sending their data to the Chinese government. Don't you think this warrants a ban?
  - defrost 3y ago
    Sure, certainly, if it's also the case that all the US apps that are actively spying on their users and selling that data to the US three letter agencies also warrant banning. From recent reports that's apparently most, if not all, of them. As a quick follow up query, can Chinese, UK, Australian, etc. companies buy up data on US citizens from brokers? Is that OK, it's probably for business reasons after all .. or friendly five eyes cross border mutual spying to take the stink off.
    - cylemons 3y ago
      You have to look at it from a national security perspective rather than a moral one. A foreign adversary spying on your citizens is terrible. The only reason most countries dont ban US apps is either they are already friendly with the US or incapable of developing a local alternative.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

perihelions 3y ago

That is the standard argument for totalitarianism: safety and stability of society, at the expense of freedom. The US is doing something different.

RandomLensman 3y ago
Did the USSR have radio and TV stations in the US during the cold war? During WWII the US had a censorship operation - was that totalitarian?
- defrost 3y ago
  Interestingly, this very question was asked and addressed here on HN 32 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39428141 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39428141
  - RandomLensman 3y ago
    Yes, by me - thank you for looping that discussion back in. It was meant to be rhetorical now - as the USSR did not have TV or radio stations in the US (but, yes, you could get USSR newspapers). Differentiating between different "attack vectors" isn't new.
- ecronant 3y ago
  [dead]

Jaxkr 3y ago

Censoring foreign speech is also a slide towards totalitarianism... Imagine if the U.S. banned a Chinese book series because we were concerned it would "undermine our institutions and society". Does that sound like a free country?

cylemons 3y ago
The problem here is that Tiktok is not merely "promoting totalitarianism", it is actively spying on it's users and sending their data to the Chinese government. Don't you think this warrants a ban?
- defrost 3y ago
  Sure, certainly, if it's also the case that all the US apps that are actively spying on their users and selling that data to the US three letter agencies also warrant banning. From recent reports that's apparently most, if not all, of them. As a quick follow up query, can Chinese, UK, Australian, etc. companies buy up data on US citizens from brokers? Is that OK, it's probably for business reasons after all .. or friendly five eyes cross border mutual spying to take the stink off.
  - cylemons 3y ago
    You have to look at it from a national security perspective rather than a moral one. A foreign adversary spying on your citizens is terrible. The only reason most countries dont ban US apps is either they are already friendly with the US or incapable of developing a local alternative.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]