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Vasopressin deficiency: driver of social impairment and fluid imbalance in ASD? [pdf]
- FrustratedMonky 3y agoDoing quick search, there is also interactions between Vasopressin and salt and blood pressure. Could ASD be helped by reducing salt? or increasing salt? I'm not knowledgeable enough to untangle all of the studies where these terms are also used, which I guess is part of the problem this paper is pointing out, that the terminology/naming is confusing. Is this saying if you have blood pressure problems you might also be at risk of ASD. Or opposite, if you have ASD, you might have more risk of blood pressure problems. "The name AVP refers to the hormone’s role in increasing vascular resistance and regulating blood pressure (via AVP receptor" "Given the emerging evidence for central AVP signaling abnormalities in ASD, we would expect individuals with ASD, or a subgroup of them, to be at increased risk of AVP-related medical conditions and symptoms. "
- notaurus 3y agoThe article is proposing the latter. Low AVP could contribute to symptoms of ASD. If this is true, they expect a positive correlation between ASD and other better-known issues caused by low AVP.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- heyoni 3y agoYou’re almost there. It’s saying that you’re at risk for central diabetes insipidus known to cause abnormal thirst and urination in like the next paragraph. What I find hilarious is that the whole first paragraph is about things being named after scientists and then there’s an author named Gesundheit…now I need to look that up.
- zelphirkalt 3y ago(Gesundheit = Health)
- c0pium 3y agoSometimes, and sometimes it’s a name. https://profiles.stanford.edu/neil-gesundheit https://profiles.stanford.edu/neil-gesundheit
- colloydi 3y agoAnd very occasionally it's a serendipitous name!
- marginalia_nu 3y agoNominative Determinism is a hell of a thing.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- colloydi 3y ago...and so is Selection Bias.
- loceng 3y agoOne thing I always found interesting is that inducing a fever in autistic people, in some of them it will reduce the severity of their autistic characteristics.
- Solvency 3y agocitation.
- meindnoch 3y agoGoogle. https://hms.harvard.edu/news/cracking-fever-autism-mystery https://hms.harvard.edu/news/cracking-fever-autism-mystery
- sp332 3y agoYour citation looks fine, but telling people to Google for citations is just pointing them straight at spam.
- Solvency 3y ago"...in mice."
- loceng 3y agoConfirmed in mice, observed first anecdotally in children with autism. I'm blown away we still as a society don't have a system where all of this information is quickly accessible in a sorted way by various trusted organizations that follow specific protocols that people determine how trustworthy they are.
- c0pium 3y agoThat would require us as a society to develop concrete solutions to determining who can be trusted. That’s obviously impossible, so we’re stuck with the process we have.
- michaelrpeskin 3y ago> Could ASD be helped by reducing salt? or increasing salt? Personal story here (N=1, not claiming anything other than that). My dad is clearly ASD, and has battled high blood pressure for as long as I can remember. He's now suffering the consequences of 40 years of absolute salt avoidance. 1) I never saw and reduction in the ASD over the past 40 years, 2) lack of salt never changed his blood pressure, and 3) now he's suffering other heath effects, but won't listen to me and only wants to do more of the same.
- naasking 3y agoAvoiding table salt thoroughly could potentially lead to iodine deficiency. It was somewhat common in the past so most table salt over the past century has had iodine added to it to avoid this, but it's cropping back up a bit as people avoid salt or prefer to use "natural rock salts" common in fine cuisine, which are not reinforced with iodine.
- hilux 3y agoIodine is in a lot of foods.
- naasking 3y agoIf it were common enough in available foods then they wouldn't have added it to table salt.
- hilux 3y agoIIRC this was added long ago, when Americans ate less meat, dairy, and seafood and were more prone to malnutrition.
- naasking 3y agoAnd yet, levels have been measurably going down, and Europeans are already fairly deficient since they don't have as many iodine supplementation programs: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9459956/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9459956/ https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/iodine.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/iodine.htm
- chris_wot 3y agoThat’s a fascinating introduction - they are concerned that dual (!) name of the molecule might be hiding all of its functions! It looks like naming thing is not just a problem for programmers.
- tootie 3y agoWhen I was diagnosed with a neurological condition that was having mostly physical symptoms, the first-line defense was antidepressants. So-named because they were developed to relieve depression, but really what they do is inhibit absorption of serotonin and/or norepinephrine leaving more free in the body to act on myriad different bodily functions. In my case, it actually caused serious digestion issues. It really clicked for me how everything in your brain is a physical process. Not just motor function, but cognition and emotions are all physical functions of how a very complicated mess of molecules bounce off each other. Autism, Alzheimers, ALS are all just misfiring molecules inside your skull. And it is therefore a given that it is physically possible to realign them back into order somehow. We just need to find the right tool to do it.
- chrisweekly 3y agoYes! This! We are our bodies, and our bodies are biochemical. I'm encouraged by growing awareness and acceptance of things like psilocybin-based treatment for PTSD. Psychobiology is fundamental to... everything a human can experience or be.
- difosfor 3y agoOf course there will be lots of molecules involved, but that doesn't make it any easier to understand let alone do something about it. In medicine and especially in psychology our functioning is a huge black box with only indirect knowledge about interactions with certain things at a very high level.
- aszantu 3y agoWas an anti- inflammatory diet for me
- hasty_pudding 3y agoYou can get tested for this if you have ASD by getting a copeptin test.
- mdon 3y agoWhat do you change about your lifestyle with that test result? I have a child with ASD, and also drinks mad amounts of water. But I didn't see any treatment plan if this deficiency is confirmed.
- RobotToaster 3y agoUsually the treatment is desmopressin I believe.
- amluto 3y agoFind a clinical trial, perhaps? There seems to be a bit of study in this direction: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2019/05/hormone-reduces-social-impairment-in-kids-with-autism.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2019/05/hormone-reduc...
- mdon 3y agoThank you for this link!
- hasty_pudding 3y agoEssentially if this theory is accurate it kind of shares similar patterns to diabetes insipidus which is essentially vasopressin dysfunction. So you can Google that and see how that is treated and tested for.
- mdon 3y agoThanks
- mchannon 3y agoI’ve theorized in my book _Fat Gas_ that vasopressin levels are tied to elevated indoor CO2 levels. Would not be at all surprised if these novel social conditions stem from not going outside enough and from poorly ventilated buildings (especially gyms and conference rooms) and transport (planes trains and automobiles each routinely exceed 1000 ppm from everybody’s lungs).
- Solvency 3y agoOr dense urban housing. But we're not allowed to criticize that, right. Homes with yards and green space are evil!
- chownie 3y agoThis doesn't follow? The co2 level indoors is decided far more by whether you have the windows open (or perhaps if you're cooking) than whether you have people living close by to you.
- goosejuice 3y agoMany high rises in urban areas have few windows that open and poor ventilation for cooking. There is a relationship, although maybe not as large as parent is implying.
- paulsutter 3y agoCO2 levels are high in enclosed spaces, not in urban environments
- RobotToaster 3y agoPeople who live in urban environments statistically spend less time outdoors.
- jogjayr 3y agoCitation? Won't people who live in small apartments need to go out more often for necessities? I know I did.
- grumpy-de-sre 3y agoNow that's some serendipitous reading. I've been on the hunt for possible mechanisms (for further study) as to why last year after trying an SSRI (escitalopram), to treat an anxiety disorder co-morbid to my ASD, that I ended up in the hospital in a hypertensive crisis. Was an all around terrible experience and I hope one day I can figure out WTF happened to me. Interestingly the BP rise seemed to be mostly diastolic driven and I had crazy excessive urination which made me think about ADH/aldosterone/etc. Seeing ADH is potentially linked to ASD definitely catches my attention! Some of the alternative theories are, I am a MAO-A knockout (unlikely because of lack of intellectual disability), or possess a hyperfunctional SERT (also linked to ASD). Really excited for the results of the whole genome sequencing I ordered to arrive.
- robotrIP 3y agoive been doing my own research for similar reasons (zoloft in my case), although i fortunately did not end up in a hospital. my girlfriend works with autistic children and swears i have ASD but I havent gotten around to being officially diagnosed, nor am i fully convinced of her claim. if you dont mind sharing, what genome sequencing service did you use? granted i havent looked too far but a lot of services i saw were kinda sketchy. hope u find the answers u seek :)
- grumpy-de-sre 3y agoOh the popular WGS services are a borderline scam. I fell for their BS unfortunately so are out a few hundred euros. I don't expect to see results for 12 months or more (if ever). In the end I found a local company that does WGS sequencing and they are a lot more reasonable to deal with, maybe 1.5-2x the price. So perhaps look for smaller providers, they are all just reselling time on the same Illumina machines. In your case, just confirming, your blood pressure is otherwise normal and you experienced an episode of severe hypertension after starting Sertraline (zoloft)? No other contraindicated medications? No indications of a bipolar/mania or something of that nature? I've talked to maybe 3x other people now who've had similar experiences (after scouring the internet), and the only commonality I've found is ASD. This is a bit of a pet project of mine, so if you want to chat about ASD shenanigans, please reach out to: asd.shenanigans@mailbox.org
- xhevahir 3y agoI was a guinea pig in a clinical trial for a drug that was meant to help with social symptoms of autism, the mechanism of which had something to with vasopressin (I don't know the details): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9260643/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9260643/ . It didn't do anything for me and the study got cancelled after I'd been taking the drug for some months.
- paulmd 3y agoOh, huh, I have always noted an odd ruddiness/doughiness as being common to certain ASD individuals I know. I always just attributed it to being overweight etc but I wonder if that’s the vasopressin fluid imbalance.