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Neanderthals got to Mediterranean islands using what had to have been boats 200,000 years ago. Of course we know nothing about the boats. It must have been terr

Neanderthals got to Mediterranean islands using what had to have been boats 200,000 years ago. Of course we know nothing about the boats. It must have been terrifying to be first. One thing we have learned about island populations is that a small population loses cultural knowledge over time. It is reported Tasmanians had lost the secret to making fire by the time Europeans got there, something I find hard to believe. Anyway boats were re-invented many times in pre-history.

082349872349872 3y ago
> a small population loses cultural knowledge over time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lykov_family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lykov_family is a good example that n=6 is way too few (even if the cultural knowledge is still there, the material goods, eg seed stock, hit absorbing barriers). Do we have any reasonable (astrophysics-level) estimates of the population sizes necessary or sufficient to support some transect of various cultural and technological practices?
- AlotOfReading 3y ago
  We do, but they're wild guesses based almost entirely on usubstantiated theoretical models. They're mostly useful for arguments between academics, not to guide any sort of intuition as to sustainable population levels.
Tuna-Fish 3y ago
Neanderthals settled all the Greek islands, except Cyprus. Cyprus was only settled ~12ka ago, long after humans had spread to both Australia and the Americas. The reason it took so long when the Greek archipelago was settled so quickly is that you can sail to every island in the Aegean knowing that there is land at your destination, because all the crossings are short enough that with a decent vantage point you can see land on the horizon. Cyprus is ~70km from the Turkish coast, which is just far enough that not only you cannot see it on the horizon from the tallest mountain on the coast, if you set off in a small boat (so you are very low and can't see far), the land won't come into view until you have completely lost sight of the shore you set off from. Migration to Australia was in fact extraordinary, which we know because in an another place with significant seafaring culture, it took 50ka longer to do a shorter trip.

082349872349872 3y ago

> a small population loses cultural knowledge over time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lykov_family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lykov_family is a good example that n=6 is way too few (even if the cultural knowledge is still there, the material goods, eg seed stock, hit absorbing barriers). Do we have any reasonable (astrophysics-level) estimates of the population sizes necessary or sufficient to support some transect of various cultural and technological practices?

AlotOfReading 3y ago
We do, but they're wild guesses based almost entirely on usubstantiated theoretical models. They're mostly useful for arguments between academics, not to guide any sort of intuition as to sustainable population levels.

Tuna-Fish 3y ago

Neanderthals settled all the Greek islands, except Cyprus. Cyprus was only settled ~12ka ago, long after humans had spread to both Australia and the Americas. The reason it took so long when the Greek archipelago was settled so quickly is that you can sail to every island in the Aegean knowing that there is land at your destination, because all the crossings are short enough that with a decent vantage point you can see land on the horizon. Cyprus is ~70km from the Turkish coast, which is just far enough that not only you cannot see it on the horizon from the tallest mountain on the coast, if you set off in a small boat (so you are very low and can't see far), the land won't come into view until you have completely lost sight of the shore you set off from. Migration to Australia was in fact extraordinary, which we know because in an another place with significant seafaring culture, it took 50ka longer to do a shorter trip.