8 ms·

Tennessee is a very right of center libertarian type state, yet they all are very happy to engage in "protectionism" when it comes to their signature country mu

Tennessee is a very right of center libertarian type state, yet they all are very happy to engage in "protectionism" when it comes to their signature country music.

plussed_reader 3y ago
Laws for me and rules for thee!
lupusreal 3y ago
> "Tennessee is a very right of center libertarian type state" If that's a bad thing, then you're praising them for not being that way this time, right? Or are you criticizing them for not living up to your negative expectations? Edit: Oh, I think I got it now. You're saying that normally right-leaning libertarianism is a bad thing, but in this case it would be a good thing. Doesn't that mean you're compromising your principles?
- mcbuilder 3y ago
  For what it's worth, I think the law is an overreach. They are basically trying to outlaw a mathematical set of transformation from a training set of data to and an input file to an output file. I don't even think you should be able to patent NN weights or algorithms or their derivatives. But it's not clear here who judges if the output is "Taylof Swift" enough. There is this creator on YouTube who makes "bad versions" using AI, I guess they aren't welcome in TN. I'm against this law because it seems impossible to enforce, what happens when some guy in China trains a Garth Brooks LoRA? You can't run inference? I think parody rights are protected, or should Weird Al makes sure he doesn't auto tune too close. I guess my perspective on TN isn't nuanced enough, and people are calling me out on associating TN and "Libertarianism" and I'm calling them out on what I see as very non-free behavior.
waihtis 3y ago
it's not protectionism when you're defending something from theft
- visarga 3y ago
  Oh, I thought they trained the models on copyrighted music, but apparently they broke in and deleted the originals as well. /s
  - waihtis 3y ago
    by the same logic youre completely fine with having your face pasted into unauthorized contexts, say on some videos of questionable type
- tenebrisalietum 3y ago
  it's not theft when the owner still has the thing. If the owner never had the thing, it is theft, but subject and target are reversed (actions taken against me for money I never gave you are stealing money from me). This could be considered protectionism, but also extortion.
  - waihtis 3y ago
    by the same logic youre completely fine with having your face pasted into unauthorized contexts, say on some videos of questionable type
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      Perhaps a likeness of it was used in a way they didn't approve but, still, their face wasn't stolen from them. This isn't the same logic at all.
      - waihtis 3y ago
        It seems you're then fine with me "lending" your voice to make irritating prank calls to all your relatives and coworkers - since it's, to reiterate, fair use of AI in your opinion
        3y ago
vegetablepotpie 3y ago
State governments are happy to turn a blind eye to their principles when politically connected industries ask for something. For example Texas, the state that is so free-market it gives you the freedom to have a $10,000 electric bill in a blizzard, signed into law SB13, which prohibits state agencies for working with companies that pledge to divest from fossil fuels [1]. This is the state of Texas mandating that private corporations invest their money in a specific way. It happens to be a way that benefits the states oil and natural gas industries, but is also costing tax payers $300m-$500m through loss of competition in financing. [1] https://www.tpr.org/government-politics/2022-08-30/texas-laws-protecting-gun-and-oil-industries-are-costing-texans-hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars https://www.tpr.org/government-politics/2022-08-30/texas-law...
- __loam 3y ago
  To be clear, telling AI companies to fuck off is way cooler than the anti-climate accelerationism.
BuyMyBitcoins 3y ago
Libertarians care a lot about property rights. I can understand how a Libertarian wouldn’t take issue with a law to protect the right to one’s own likeness. It could be argued that using AI to duplicate someone’s voice is a form of theft. I can’t think of any Libertarians who think the government shouldn’t have laws around theft.
- nobodyandproud 3y ago
  So hypothetically, if someone looks or sounds like an individual then are they in violation? Suppose they’re identical twins. AI can’t be a free-for-all and I’m perfectly fine with what Tennessee is doing here. It’s the stated Libertarian position that I have questions on.
  - BuyMyBitcoins 3y ago
    I don't see the identical twin / soundalike argument as relevant because we are talking about using an AI with the specific intent of impersonation. This doesn’t ban cover bands or soundalikes. Even so, I think there are some existing laws around such things, and I think such acts need to pay royalties in some form. I don’t want to go down that rabbit hole, to be honest. Regardless, no actual Libertarian position was presented in the article. The comment I responded to was making a dig at Libertarians and the State of Kentucky. Even though I find a lot of Libertarians abrasive and that their ideology is incompatible with actual governance, I still like to analyze how they think. My goal was to provide a perspective on why a Libertarian might be okay with such a law.
    - nobodyandproud 3y ago
      Fair enough. You’re narrowing the issue of ownership by method of construction/reproduction. But isn’t the issue and violation of ownership really about making forgeries: That is, claiming to be what it isn’t? What’s novel then is that AI just made it incredibly easy to create forgeries of IP.
asdff 3y ago
Can you give examples of how its libertarian? Seems to me its no different than any other state in regards to taxes or requirements. For example zoning is still highly restrictive in terms of what you are allowed to build on your land.
- bwanab 3y ago
  It's not at all. Source: ex-Tennessean.
triceratops 3y ago
Whatever gave you the idea it's libertarian?
oglop 3y ago
I can see you've never been to Nashville. I'm not a country music fan, I hate the music. But I lived down there for about 5 years and it's amazing how many incredible musicians live there. You can walk down the street and it won't take long to find some musician just singing for cash putting on a professional level performance. I can't state it strongly enough, just jaw droppingly good musicians. Playing for friggin quarters and dollars. It probably has more to do with the music economy which is massive in Nashville than any political ideal. I'm not sure that's protectionism, seems like common sense. They'd be stupid _not_ to do this.
- dehrmann 3y ago
  > music economy There's a relatively small market for live music, small market for widely-distributed new artists, and a never-ending supply of kids with a passion for music who will dedicate themselves to it.
swatcoder 3y ago
You're projecting memes from a prolonged national culture war onto a state with practical challenges to address. It's not like "very right of center libertarian type state" is the Tennessee state motto or something, it's just a label you've attached for your own convenience in online debates and at dinner parties. That this action seems incongruent to your image of Tennesee is a sign that your stereotype is shallow and incorrect, not that Tennnessee is hypocritical.
- mcbuilder 3y ago
  I'm just talking about my perspective after moving to East Tennessee and living here a few months. I'd say the people are much more libertarian that I ever noticed on the West Coast. I of course agree that states like New Hampshire are more of a "traditionally libertarian", but I've noticed a definite libertarian perspective when it comes to business and economic issues, while it's of course very socially conservative in other areas. I making observations based on personal observations, not simply to make a point. I don't know where you're from or where you live, but I assure you I'm not making stereotypes, this is just what I've noticed from talking to my neighbors and members of the community. I'm sure my viewpoint will become more nuanced as I continue to learn more, but I don't think I'm that off kilter here in saying that economically Tennessee (especially East Tennessee, maybe Nashville is different) leans more libertarian than a lot of places in the country.
TylerE 3y ago
They’re far right, but the opposite of libertarian. This is the heart of the Bible Belt. They’re all about telling people what to do and how to live their lives. Actual right wing libertarianism looks a lot like New Hampshire. Their motto is “Live Free or Die”. They’re the only state without a seatbelt law - even though that means giving up on federal highway money.

Tennessee is a very right of center libertarian type state, yet they all are very happy to engage in "protectionism" when it comes to their signature country music.

plussed_reader 3y ago

Laws for me and rules for thee!

lupusreal 3y ago

> "Tennessee is a very right of center libertarian type state" If that's a bad thing, then you're praising them for not being that way this time, right? Or are you criticizing them for not living up to your negative expectations? Edit: Oh, I think I got it now. You're saying that normally right-leaning libertarianism is a bad thing, but in this case it would be a good thing. Doesn't that mean you're compromising your principles?

mcbuilder 3y ago
For what it's worth, I think the law is an overreach. They are basically trying to outlaw a mathematical set of transformation from a training set of data to and an input file to an output file. I don't even think you should be able to patent NN weights or algorithms or their derivatives. But it's not clear here who judges if the output is "Taylof Swift" enough. There is this creator on YouTube who makes "bad versions" using AI, I guess they aren't welcome in TN. I'm against this law because it seems impossible to enforce, what happens when some guy in China trains a Garth Brooks LoRA? You can't run inference? I think parody rights are protected, or should Weird Al makes sure he doesn't auto tune too close. I guess my perspective on TN isn't nuanced enough, and people are calling me out on associating TN and "Libertarianism" and I'm calling them out on what I see as very non-free behavior.

waihtis 3y ago

it's not protectionism when you're defending something from theft

visarga 3y ago
Oh, I thought they trained the models on copyrighted music, but apparently they broke in and deleted the originals as well. /s
- waihtis 3y ago
  by the same logic youre completely fine with having your face pasted into unauthorized contexts, say on some videos of questionable type
tenebrisalietum 3y ago
it's not theft when the owner still has the thing. If the owner never had the thing, it is theft, but subject and target are reversed (actions taken against me for money I never gave you are stealing money from me). This could be considered protectionism, but also extortion.
- waihtis 3y ago
  by the same logic youre completely fine with having your face pasted into unauthorized contexts, say on some videos of questionable type
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    Perhaps a likeness of it was used in a way they didn't approve but, still, their face wasn't stolen from them. This isn't the same logic at all.
    - waihtis 3y ago
      It seems you're then fine with me "lending" your voice to make irritating prank calls to all your relatives and coworkers - since it's, to reiterate, fair use of AI in your opinion
      - 3y ago

vegetablepotpie 3y ago

State governments are happy to turn a blind eye to their principles when politically connected industries ask for something. For example Texas, the state that is so free-market it gives you the freedom to have a $10,000 electric bill in a blizzard, signed into law SB13, which prohibits state agencies for working with companies that pledge to divest from fossil fuels [1]. This is the state of Texas mandating that private corporations invest their money in a specific way. It happens to be a way that benefits the states oil and natural gas industries, but is also costing tax payers $300m-$500m through loss of competition in financing. [1] https://www.tpr.org/government-politics/2022-08-30/texas-laws-protecting-gun-and-oil-industries-are-costing-texans-hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars https://www.tpr.org/government-politics/2022-08-30/texas-law...

__loam 3y ago
To be clear, telling AI companies to fuck off is way cooler than the anti-climate accelerationism.

BuyMyBitcoins 3y ago

Libertarians care a lot about property rights. I can understand how a Libertarian wouldn’t take issue with a law to protect the right to one’s own likeness. It could be argued that using AI to duplicate someone’s voice is a form of theft. I can’t think of any Libertarians who think the government shouldn’t have laws around theft.

nobodyandproud 3y ago
So hypothetically, if someone looks or sounds like an individual then are they in violation? Suppose they’re identical twins. AI can’t be a free-for-all and I’m perfectly fine with what Tennessee is doing here. It’s the stated Libertarian position that I have questions on.
- BuyMyBitcoins 3y ago
  I don't see the identical twin / soundalike argument as relevant because we are talking about using an AI with the specific intent of impersonation. This doesn’t ban cover bands or soundalikes. Even so, I think there are some existing laws around such things, and I think such acts need to pay royalties in some form. I don’t want to go down that rabbit hole, to be honest. Regardless, no actual Libertarian position was presented in the article. The comment I responded to was making a dig at Libertarians and the State of Kentucky. Even though I find a lot of Libertarians abrasive and that their ideology is incompatible with actual governance, I still like to analyze how they think. My goal was to provide a perspective on why a Libertarian might be okay with such a law.
  - nobodyandproud 3y ago
    Fair enough. You’re narrowing the issue of ownership by method of construction/reproduction. But isn’t the issue and violation of ownership really about making forgeries: That is, claiming to be what it isn’t? What’s novel then is that AI just made it incredibly easy to create forgeries of IP.

asdff 3y ago

Can you give examples of how its libertarian? Seems to me its no different than any other state in regards to taxes or requirements. For example zoning is still highly restrictive in terms of what you are allowed to build on your land.

bwanab 3y ago
It's not at all. Source: ex-Tennessean.

triceratops 3y ago

Whatever gave you the idea it's libertarian?

oglop 3y ago

I can see you've never been to Nashville. I'm not a country music fan, I hate the music. But I lived down there for about 5 years and it's amazing how many incredible musicians live there. You can walk down the street and it won't take long to find some musician just singing for cash putting on a professional level performance. I can't state it strongly enough, just jaw droppingly good musicians. Playing for friggin quarters and dollars. It probably has more to do with the music economy which is massive in Nashville than any political ideal. I'm not sure that's protectionism, seems like common sense. They'd be stupid _not_ to do this.

dehrmann 3y ago
> music economy There's a relatively small market for live music, small market for widely-distributed new artists, and a never-ending supply of kids with a passion for music who will dedicate themselves to it.

swatcoder 3y ago

You're projecting memes from a prolonged national culture war onto a state with practical challenges to address. It's not like "very right of center libertarian type state" is the Tennessee state motto or something, it's just a label you've attached for your own convenience in online debates and at dinner parties. That this action seems incongruent to your image of Tennesee is a sign that your stereotype is shallow and incorrect, not that Tennnessee is hypocritical.

mcbuilder 3y ago
I'm just talking about my perspective after moving to East Tennessee and living here a few months. I'd say the people are much more libertarian that I ever noticed on the West Coast. I of course agree that states like New Hampshire are more of a "traditionally libertarian", but I've noticed a definite libertarian perspective when it comes to business and economic issues, while it's of course very socially conservative in other areas. I making observations based on personal observations, not simply to make a point. I don't know where you're from or where you live, but I assure you I'm not making stereotypes, this is just what I've noticed from talking to my neighbors and members of the community. I'm sure my viewpoint will become more nuanced as I continue to learn more, but I don't think I'm that off kilter here in saying that economically Tennessee (especially East Tennessee, maybe Nashville is different) leans more libertarian than a lot of places in the country.

TylerE 3y ago

They’re far right, but the opposite of libertarian. This is the heart of the Bible Belt. They’re all about telling people what to do and how to live their lives. Actual right wing libertarianism looks a lot like New Hampshire. Their motto is “Live Free or Die”. They’re the only state without a seatbelt law - even though that means giving up on federal highway money.