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So what's a person like us to do? It sounds increasingly like "wait for the end". This guy is talking about power lines melting due to heat. And land that gets

So what's a person like us to do? It sounds increasingly like "wait for the end". This guy is talking about power lines melting due to heat. And land that gets so much rain, heat, dry, and frost no crops can survive a growing season. I have time and resources but no idea even where to put them. I can't imagine even building an indoor garden will work in that kind of environment, neighbors will just come take whatever you have. There's too many of us, too much instability. Seriously if anyone knows how I can help, please let me know. When my local community started suffering from lack of fire fighters I joined up. When ambulances got more scarce, I signed up and am becoming an EMT. I already don't drive and eat vegetarian, and barely consume anything. What's level 2 look like for this? I won't accept "watch the world die", so how can I help?

ZeroGravitas 3y ago
https://drawdown.org/get-involved https://drawdown.org/get-involved It states up front that the actions of an individual are basically meaningless in a global system but then lists things that you can do that will make a difference if enough people do them.
jfengel 3y ago
I'm afraid the answer is ugly. The problem is American politics. Dealing with climate change is hard, but it's the Americans making it impossible. We are among the most prolific producers, both individually and in aggregate, and we're the only ones widely denying that the problem even exists. The rest of the world is reluctant to make (and stick to) a deal without American help. The thing with climate change deniers is that they're not just wrong on climate change. Climate change denial is a conspiracy theory, and people who believe one conspiracy theory are often open to more. The US is intermittently run by conspiracy theorists, doing all kinds of harm. That's the thing you can affect. You make it clear that you will not tolerate conspiracy theories. You tell people, "Voting is not just one day every few years. It has consequences that affect me, personally. We cannot be friends if you are going to make choices that hurt me. The time has past where we can just 'agree to disagree'." You cannot do anything about this problem on your own. It must be a group effort. Solving it yourself would be like trying to contribute your part to solving traffic by building a few feet of your own road. Like I said, this is ugly. Our friendship is the only real lever we have on how people act. People are going to tell me that we shouldn't let politics pick our personal lives, and that my approach here will just increase divisiveness. But I think divisiveness is already far past a tolerable level and extreme actions are required. So... feel free to ignore me. But I think this needed to be said.
- safety1st 3y ago
  This is amazingly, I mean profoundly misguided. I know people who have tried this on me. My life is better off now that they're no longer a part of it, when they've made attempts to reconnect I've ignored them. But most importantly, when they pulled this behavior, it actually influenced me to oppose the position they were supporting out of spite. Like any sympathy I had to their position if I was on the fence, was erased. Call me petty, call this irrational, but it's human nature and I know I'm not the only one. I bet most people won't admit this but I will: if a friend presents me with an ultimatum like "support climate action or else I won't be your friend anymore," I will oppose climate action, because fuck you. Do not do this if you want the world to improve.
  - unclebucknasty 3y ago
    Alternative point of view: if it really is a reality-hostile or harmful conspiracy theory that is the subject of the ultimatum, then the person being confronted has arguably already issued a "fuck you" to the world.
  - Tadpole9181 3y ago
    > if a friend presents me with an ultimatum like "support climate action or else I won't be your friend anymore," I will oppose climate action, because fuck you. This speaks about you.
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      It does. But it also speaks about human nature. If you want to fix climate change and your plan doesn't work with the humans we have, you don't have a workable plan.
- sickofparadox 3y ago
  Surely America is the problem despite massive investment into decarbonizing [1] and dropping emissions to 30 year lows[2]. It can't possibly be any other countries building record number of coal-fueled power plants [3] [4] or moronic """green""" parties shutting down zero emission nuclear generators to open more fossil fuel power plants [5] [6]. If your analysis of any issue will just boil down to 'America bad' you are a thoroughly unserious person. [1] https://www.epa.gov/inflation-reduction-act/inflation-reduction-act-programs-fight-climate-change-reducing-embodied#:~:text=The%20Inflation%20Reduction%20Act%20invests,and%20other%20greenhouse%20gas%20emissions https://www.epa.gov/inflation-reduction-act/inflation-reduct... [2]https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions#:~:text=Data%20%7C%20Technical%20Documentation-,Key%20Points,above%201990%20levels%20in%202007 https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indica.... [3] https://globalenergymonitor.org/press-release/chinas-coal-power-spree-could-see-over-300-coal-plants-added-before-emissions-peak/ https://globalenergymonitor.org/press-release/chinas-coal-po... [4] https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/india-increase-coal-fired-capacity-2024-by-most-least-6-years-2024-02-01/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/india-increase-coal-... [5] https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germany-approves-bringing-coal-fired-power-plants-back-online-this-winter-2023-10-04/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germany-approves-bri... [6] https://www.politico.eu/article/nuclear-reactors-germany-invest-gas-power-plants-energy/ https://www.politico.eu/article/nuclear-reactors-germany-inv...
graemep 3y ago
> When my local community started suffering from lack of fire fighters I joined up. When ambulances got more scarce, I signed up and am becoming an EMT Maybe that points to something you can do. Get involved in protecting the environment locally. Eat local food and pressure producers (you are now their customer) to farm better. More local green spaces. Better water and waterways management, forest management, whatever is relevant. Climate is local to some extent, as is resilience to change. I think the author is a bit alarmist - powerlines melting will not be a common problem. They work even in very hot climates. Also not cynical enough about governments - they are heavily influenced by people with solutions to sell. That is why they push offsetting by planting trees (relatively ineffective) far more than they do protecting existing carbon sink ecosystems, for example.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

https://drawdown.org/get-involved https://drawdown.org/get-involved It states up front that the actions of an individual are basically meaningless in a global system but then lists things that you can do that will make a difference if enough people do them.

jfengel 3y ago

I'm afraid the answer is ugly. The problem is American politics. Dealing with climate change is hard, but it's the Americans making it impossible. We are among the most prolific producers, both individually and in aggregate, and we're the only ones widely denying that the problem even exists. The rest of the world is reluctant to make (and stick to) a deal without American help. The thing with climate change deniers is that they're not just wrong on climate change. Climate change denial is a conspiracy theory, and people who believe one conspiracy theory are often open to more. The US is intermittently run by conspiracy theorists, doing all kinds of harm. That's the thing you can affect. You make it clear that you will not tolerate conspiracy theories. You tell people, "Voting is not just one day every few years. It has consequences that affect me, personally. We cannot be friends if you are going to make choices that hurt me. The time has past where we can just 'agree to disagree'." You cannot do anything about this problem on your own. It must be a group effort. Solving it yourself would be like trying to contribute your part to solving traffic by building a few feet of your own road. Like I said, this is ugly. Our friendship is the only real lever we have on how people act. People are going to tell me that we shouldn't let politics pick our personal lives, and that my approach here will just increase divisiveness. But I think divisiveness is already far past a tolerable level and extreme actions are required. So... feel free to ignore me. But I think this needed to be said.

safety1st 3y ago
This is amazingly, I mean profoundly misguided. I know people who have tried this on me. My life is better off now that they're no longer a part of it, when they've made attempts to reconnect I've ignored them. But most importantly, when they pulled this behavior, it actually influenced me to oppose the position they were supporting out of spite. Like any sympathy I had to their position if I was on the fence, was erased. Call me petty, call this irrational, but it's human nature and I know I'm not the only one. I bet most people won't admit this but I will: if a friend presents me with an ultimatum like "support climate action or else I won't be your friend anymore," I will oppose climate action, because fuck you. Do not do this if you want the world to improve.
- unclebucknasty 3y ago
  Alternative point of view: if it really is a reality-hostile or harmful conspiracy theory that is the subject of the ultimatum, then the person being confronted has arguably already issued a "fuck you" to the world.
- Tadpole9181 3y ago
  > if a friend presents me with an ultimatum like "support climate action or else I won't be your friend anymore," I will oppose climate action, because fuck you. This speaks about you.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    It does. But it also speaks about human nature. If you want to fix climate change and your plan doesn't work with the humans we have, you don't have a workable plan.
sickofparadox 3y ago
Surely America is the problem despite massive investment into decarbonizing [1] and dropping emissions to 30 year lows[2]. It can't possibly be any other countries building record number of coal-fueled power plants [3] [4] or moronic """green""" parties shutting down zero emission nuclear generators to open more fossil fuel power plants [5] [6]. If your analysis of any issue will just boil down to 'America bad' you are a thoroughly unserious person. [1] https://www.epa.gov/inflation-reduction-act/inflation-reduction-act-programs-fight-climate-change-reducing-embodied#:~:text=The%20Inflation%20Reduction%20Act%20invests,and%20other%20greenhouse%20gas%20emissions https://www.epa.gov/inflation-reduction-act/inflation-reduct... [2]https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions#:~:text=Data%20%7C%20Technical%20Documentation-,Key%20Points,above%201990%20levels%20in%202007 https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indica.... [3] https://globalenergymonitor.org/press-release/chinas-coal-power-spree-could-see-over-300-coal-plants-added-before-emissions-peak/ https://globalenergymonitor.org/press-release/chinas-coal-po... [4] https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/india-increase-coal-fired-capacity-2024-by-most-least-6-years-2024-02-01/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/india-increase-coal-... [5] https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germany-approves-bringing-coal-fired-power-plants-back-online-this-winter-2023-10-04/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germany-approves-bri... [6] https://www.politico.eu/article/nuclear-reactors-germany-invest-gas-power-plants-energy/ https://www.politico.eu/article/nuclear-reactors-germany-inv...

graemep 3y ago

> When my local community started suffering from lack of fire fighters I joined up. When ambulances got more scarce, I signed up and am becoming an EMT Maybe that points to something you can do. Get involved in protecting the environment locally. Eat local food and pressure producers (you are now their customer) to farm better. More local green spaces. Better water and waterways management, forest management, whatever is relevant. Climate is local to some extent, as is resilience to change. I think the author is a bit alarmist - powerlines melting will not be a common problem. They work even in very hot climates. Also not cynical enough about governments - they are heavily influenced by people with solutions to sell. That is why they push offsetting by planting trees (relatively ineffective) far more than they do protecting existing carbon sink ecosystems, for example.