5 ms·

Have you even tried to get out of the defense contracting world and work at one of the non-shitty jobs that commenters here keep futilely trying to tell you exi

by sciurus 14y ago

Have you even tried to get out of the defense contracting world and work at one of the non-shitty jobs that commenters here keep futilely trying to tell you exist?

grumps 14y ago
That can be exteremly hard, if you're not writing code. Not all the roles and responsibilities directly translate to the world of private industry. For example a Systems Engineer in defense is loosely a product manager/ architect. However, it's impossible to get show all the responsibilities translate. Try explaining that to a recruiter... It tried for months.
- vonmoltke 14y ago
  I was in that boat for ~2 years (got out of it a little over a month ago). My problem was reduced in some respects, while amplified in others, because on my program systems engineers were developing signal processing algorithms[0] and implementing them in real-time signal processing software, in C. This caused all sorts of partial mismatches and misunderstandings, but ultimately the software piece got me out of there. [edit] I would like to add that not being able to discuss what I did in meaningful detail was the most serious hindrance to my job search. [0] This bit caused its own problems with a few companies, who saw "algorithms" and thought something else.
  - grumps 14y ago
    Yea, I'm pretty much a pure systems engineer. I'm working on teaching my self some code but it's not going to get me out of there. It's rough... I'm close though. Hopefully in a few weeks life will change.
- dsolomon 14y ago
  Seriously. Try explaining PfM, UML, DoDAF or FEAF, to a recruiter. Or Troux, Primavera, System Architect, or DOORS. Or why ISSEP/ISSAP can be critical. All while the recruiter is trying to do their job asking "Do you know C hashtag?" ... LOLWUT.
dsolomon 14y ago
Yup, got called by Google. The "senior talent management engineer" had no idea what 'cost control measures' were. If within the first 10 seconds you can't tell me if I've got to pay out of pocket for visual studio of whatever else, then get lost.
- notJim 14y ago
  Why are you even talking about that kind of thing in the first 10 seconds of talking to a recruiter? Discuss the terms of the job after you get offered the job. Plus, I mean, have you done any research into the degree of coddling Google employees receive? You really think they provide you 3 gourmet meals per day, but not with the basic tools to perform your job?
  - dsolomon 14y ago
    I'm not sitting through 4 or more rounds of interviews with recruiters, senior recruiters, recruiter managers, technical recruiters, senior technical recruiters, technical recruiter managers, to finally reach the person capable of making a decision. And exactly how can a recruiter brag about the company "gourmet" cafeteria (I'll pass on getting food poisoning from another gourmet cafeteria again), but doesn't know if the company provides the equipment? It's they don't know, or more accurately won't disclose, then I'm just hanging up. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.
    - notJim 14y ago
      > I'm not sitting through 4 or more rounds of interviews with recruiters, senior recruiters, recruiter managers, technical recruiters, senior technical recruiters, technical recruiter managers, to finally reach the person capable of making a decision. Well that's a problem. What you think they're going to hire you because of your charm and winning personality? And honestly, I seriously doubt there are many people who would doubt that google provides their employees with the basic tools to do their jobs. It's simply one of the most absurd things I've read.
      - 14y ago

by sciurus 14y ago

Have you even tried to get out of the defense contracting world and work at one of the non-shitty jobs that commenters here keep futilely trying to tell you exist?

grumps 14y ago

That can be exteremly hard, if you're not writing code. Not all the roles and responsibilities directly translate to the world of private industry. For example a Systems Engineer in defense is loosely a product manager/ architect. However, it's impossible to get show all the responsibilities translate. Try explaining that to a recruiter... It tried for months.

vonmoltke 14y ago
I was in that boat for ~2 years (got out of it a little over a month ago). My problem was reduced in some respects, while amplified in others, because on my program systems engineers were developing signal processing algorithms[0] and implementing them in real-time signal processing software, in C. This caused all sorts of partial mismatches and misunderstandings, but ultimately the software piece got me out of there. [edit] I would like to add that not being able to discuss what I did in meaningful detail was the most serious hindrance to my job search. [0] This bit caused its own problems with a few companies, who saw "algorithms" and thought something else.
- grumps 14y ago
  Yea, I'm pretty much a pure systems engineer. I'm working on teaching my self some code but it's not going to get me out of there. It's rough... I'm close though. Hopefully in a few weeks life will change.
dsolomon 14y ago
Seriously. Try explaining PfM, UML, DoDAF or FEAF, to a recruiter. Or Troux, Primavera, System Architect, or DOORS. Or why ISSEP/ISSAP can be critical. All while the recruiter is trying to do their job asking "Do you know C hashtag?" ... LOLWUT.

dsolomon 14y ago

Yup, got called by Google. The "senior talent management engineer" had no idea what 'cost control measures' were. If within the first 10 seconds you can't tell me if I've got to pay out of pocket for visual studio of whatever else, then get lost.

notJim 14y ago
Why are you even talking about that kind of thing in the first 10 seconds of talking to a recruiter? Discuss the terms of the job after you get offered the job. Plus, I mean, have you done any research into the degree of coddling Google employees receive? You really think they provide you 3 gourmet meals per day, but not with the basic tools to perform your job?
- dsolomon 14y ago
  I'm not sitting through 4 or more rounds of interviews with recruiters, senior recruiters, recruiter managers, technical recruiters, senior technical recruiters, technical recruiter managers, to finally reach the person capable of making a decision. And exactly how can a recruiter brag about the company "gourmet" cafeteria (I'll pass on getting food poisoning from another gourmet cafeteria again), but doesn't know if the company provides the equipment? It's they don't know, or more accurately won't disclose, then I'm just hanging up. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.
  - notJim 14y ago
    > I'm not sitting through 4 or more rounds of interviews with recruiters, senior recruiters, recruiter managers, technical recruiters, senior technical recruiters, technical recruiter managers, to finally reach the person capable of making a decision. Well that's a problem. What you think they're going to hire you because of your charm and winning personality? And honestly, I seriously doubt there are many people who would doubt that google provides their employees with the basic tools to do their jobs. It's simply one of the most absurd things I've read.
    - 14y ago