4 ms·

There's a peer comment that exemplifies the problem that scares me most. (Edit: Oh good, it got flagged into oblivion, basically it was advocating for killing i

There's a peer comment that exemplifies the problem that scares me most. (Edit: Oh good, it got flagged into oblivion, basically it was advocating for killing illegal immigrants) In the US, basically all of Central American is coming to live here in the coming decades. If we don't find a way to invite and welcome them, our society is going to break down. Conservatives are freaking out about "invasions over the southern border" and advocating killing people. This is just the start. This is the trickle. No amount of "border security" will stop people fleeing for their lives en-mass. The US just isn't culturally prepared for this and I don't know how we can change it.

082349872349872 3y ago
Not culturally prepared for putting newcomers into low wage-low status jobs? West Side Story was 1961: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhSKk-cvblc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhSKk-cvblc Here you are free and you have pride Long as you stay on your own side Free to be anything you choose Free to wait tables and shine shoes compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment#%22No_Irish_need_apply%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment#%22No_Iri...
- bell-cot 3y ago
  The U.S. of 1961 had millions of low-education/low-wage jobs. And loads of cheap housing. And both of those were seen as growth sectors. Vs. the U.S. of 2024? Far closer to "None of the above".
  - MattGaiser 3y ago
    US continues to have lots of both, except that the major cities have grown to the point that some areas are not cheap. But there is a lot more to the USA than New York and San Francisco. Consider places like Madison. Unemployment is 2%, and houses are around 300-400K. Or Fargo, unemployment of 2.4% and houses around 250K.
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    It's been a long time since I've been in the Old Country. I'd believe live-in help is long gone, but have you all truly lost all the car washes, restaurant kitchens (and waitstaff), gardening and janitorial services, day labour walls, valet parking, etc.? (as to cheap housing, note that the 1961 lyrics include "12 in a room in America")
    - bell-cot 3y ago
      > Have you truly lost all... Literally, no. But... Massive losses of higher-paying/higher-skill jobs, especially in factories, are pushing very large number of citizens into low-pay/low-skill/insecure jobs. They often react badly to the prospect of (their PoV) yet more people who the boss could replace them with at any moment. Current accepted wisdom, for many manual jobs, is that automation/robots/AI will replace most of the human workers in the next decade-ish. For instance - the hot new trend in car washes is extreme automation - cutting the labor force by 10X or more. Gentrification puts NIMBY's - who tend to be very poverty-intolerant - either in, or close to, many of the places where migrants might live "at unintended high densities".
malux85 3y ago
This scares me too, I hope for an optimistic uptopia of free robotic labour to help us support the incoming flood of people (who are in that position by happenstance, and should be helped I believe) But I am scared of a border of terminators with guns. I suspect a well armed, high speed, highly optimised robot army standing in front of an enourmous wall built by robotic near-free-labour would be sufficient to stop the flood of people, but I truly hope that never happens. With the dexterity improvements of the latest robotic companies we're what, 5-10 years from this being an option? When will the migration happen? 10 years?
- yourusername 3y ago
  If you've decided that it's ok to kill people for trying to cross the border you can already do that. The US border is not in a jungle. If you seed it with enough landmines almost no one is making it through.
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    That cuts both ways though: whenever the [Democrat/Republicans] take over and start putting all political opposition in [FEMA/Church] reeducation camps, whoever attempts to flee south will also have to make it through that minefield...
  - ElevenLathe 3y ago
    Half the ruling class has to pretend that their fascist border policy is actually humanitarian, so they need to constantly innovate new things to take the place of landmines and guys with rifles. To an elected Democrat in Washington, a "digital border" sounds (at the moment, when it is still on the drawing board) like something they can sell back in their Democratic district (it's not really, because their constituents aren't as dumb as they are, but of course they can't grasp that). Elected Republicans would of course sign up for the landmine plan at the drop of a hat.
- graemep 3y ago
  Low skilled immigrants usually ARE the cheap labour.
netsharc 3y ago
In Europe, the governments already pay the Libyan coast guard and Turkey to stop boats from landing in their continent, and the liberals there (I count myself as one) look away as if it's not happening. The Greek and Italian coast guards also act dumb and ignore may days from sinking boats in their waters. Yeah, the article only mentions that climate migrants will be in the US/Europe and will cause conflicts, it doesn't talk about the rise of insular/fearful right-wingers voting in their people, who in turn will not be shy about shooting people based on the color of their skin. E.g. Italy already has a right-wing populist government.

082349872349872 3y ago

Not culturally prepared for putting newcomers into low wage-low status jobs? West Side Story was 1961: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhSKk-cvblc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhSKk-cvblc Here you are free and you have pride Long as you stay on your own side Free to be anything you choose Free to wait tables and shine shoes compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment#%22No_Irish_need_apply%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment#%22No_Iri...

bell-cot 3y ago
The U.S. of 1961 had millions of low-education/low-wage jobs. And loads of cheap housing. And both of those were seen as growth sectors. Vs. the U.S. of 2024? Far closer to "None of the above".
- MattGaiser 3y ago
  US continues to have lots of both, except that the major cities have grown to the point that some areas are not cheap. But there is a lot more to the USA than New York and San Francisco. Consider places like Madison. Unemployment is 2%, and houses are around 300-400K. Or Fargo, unemployment of 2.4% and houses around 250K.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  It's been a long time since I've been in the Old Country. I'd believe live-in help is long gone, but have you all truly lost all the car washes, restaurant kitchens (and waitstaff), gardening and janitorial services, day labour walls, valet parking, etc.? (as to cheap housing, note that the 1961 lyrics include "12 in a room in America")
  - bell-cot 3y ago
    > Have you truly lost all... Literally, no. But... Massive losses of higher-paying/higher-skill jobs, especially in factories, are pushing very large number of citizens into low-pay/low-skill/insecure jobs. They often react badly to the prospect of (their PoV) yet more people who the boss could replace them with at any moment. Current accepted wisdom, for many manual jobs, is that automation/robots/AI will replace most of the human workers in the next decade-ish. For instance - the hot new trend in car washes is extreme automation - cutting the labor force by 10X or more. Gentrification puts NIMBY's - who tend to be very poverty-intolerant - either in, or close to, many of the places where migrants might live "at unintended high densities".

malux85 3y ago

This scares me too, I hope for an optimistic uptopia of free robotic labour to help us support the incoming flood of people (who are in that position by happenstance, and should be helped I believe) But I am scared of a border of terminators with guns. I suspect a well armed, high speed, highly optimised robot army standing in front of an enourmous wall built by robotic near-free-labour would be sufficient to stop the flood of people, but I truly hope that never happens. With the dexterity improvements of the latest robotic companies we're what, 5-10 years from this being an option? When will the migration happen? 10 years?

yourusername 3y ago
If you've decided that it's ok to kill people for trying to cross the border you can already do that. The US border is not in a jungle. If you seed it with enough landmines almost no one is making it through.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  That cuts both ways though: whenever the [Democrat/Republicans] take over and start putting all political opposition in [FEMA/Church] reeducation camps, whoever attempts to flee south will also have to make it through that minefield...
- ElevenLathe 3y ago
  Half the ruling class has to pretend that their fascist border policy is actually humanitarian, so they need to constantly innovate new things to take the place of landmines and guys with rifles. To an elected Democrat in Washington, a "digital border" sounds (at the moment, when it is still on the drawing board) like something they can sell back in their Democratic district (it's not really, because their constituents aren't as dumb as they are, but of course they can't grasp that). Elected Republicans would of course sign up for the landmine plan at the drop of a hat.
graemep 3y ago
Low skilled immigrants usually ARE the cheap labour.

netsharc 3y ago

In Europe, the governments already pay the Libyan coast guard and Turkey to stop boats from landing in their continent, and the liberals there (I count myself as one) look away as if it's not happening. The Greek and Italian coast guards also act dumb and ignore may days from sinking boats in their waters. Yeah, the article only mentions that climate migrants will be in the US/Europe and will cause conflicts, it doesn't talk about the rise of insular/fearful right-wingers voting in their people, who in turn will not be shy about shooting people based on the color of their skin. E.g. Italy already has a right-wing populist government.