3 ms·

We'll see. I'm hopefully optimistic that will show that cannabis is far less dangerous than alcohol.

082349872349872 3y ago
My (US) colleagues were bitterly disappointed that although the tracks on DTH's 1998 christmas album are available via YouTube, they were missing out on the liner note recipe for Christstollen nach Alice B. Toklas'r Art: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wir_warten_auf’s_Christkind#Artwork https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wir_warten_auf’s_Christkind#Ar... ; don't germans have at least a half century experience with cannabis v. alcohol by now? EDIT: even Duden knows how to kiff (schwaches Verb; Perfektbildung mit „hat“), see https://www.duden.de/konjugation/kiffen https://www.duden.de/konjugation/kiffen
lambdaba 3y ago
It's also far less dangerous for general health than sugar, which is ubiquitous and fed to children with no restraints. There is no argument for health to restrict cannabis for adults, the risks are well-known, and people are engaging in it, particularly in abuse, with full knowledge. Even the dangers of sugar are still not so well-known, as supermarket shelves demonstrate.
- WA 3y ago
  THC is a hallucinogen. It can trigger psychosis. I know a person who committed suicide because of this. I know more people who kinda threw their lives away and became total slackers, because they were high all the time in their late teens. A single dose is probably irrelevant for health. But I’d argue that (mental) health would suffer way more than compared to all health effects of sugar. I’m not against legalizing cannabis, but the cannabis community downplays the risks of regular consumption a lot.
  - rpdillon 3y ago
    THC is not a hallucinogen, it's a cannabinoid. How do you know the cause of your acquaintance's suicide?
  - lambdaba 3y ago
    > But I’d argue that (mental) health would suffer way more than compared to all health effects of sugar. Have you seen the mental health statistics? What they all have in common in having been raised, and living on, refined sugar (and other foods unsuitable for human consumption), not cannabis. I'm not saying cannabis is a always a good idea, but even so mainly because it's often in the context of having already frail health, and combination, oftentimes with literal poisons like alcohol. There's a huge hypocrisy around it being a question of public health; it's not, if it were, sugar would be highly taxed and regulated (esp. not being marketed to children), alcohol would be banned, etc. It still surprises me this hasn't permeated yet, as the information is now widely available.
Amezarak 3y ago
I've always been puzzled by the argument that, since cannabis is less dangerous than alcohol, we should therefore remove legal disincentives for cannabis consumption rather than the seemingly more logical conclusion we should try to disincentivize alcohol consumption. If it is a matter of harm, you don't remove disincentives on less harmful things simply because there are less/no disincentives on more harmful things. Of course, if we're instead making an argument about liberty, matters are different.
- gryzzly 3y ago
  "disincentivising", also known as "war on drugs" is making criminals more rich and police more corrupt. "dry laws" have also mostly resulted in proliferation of illegal alcohol sales and criminal groups dealing with that. perhaps harm reduction should be dealt with in a different way than prohibition and use of force.
  - cies 3y ago
    > is making criminals more rich and police more corrupt. And youngsters who smoke weed in the streets learn to hate cops. Which may or may not be a bad thing.
  - lispm 3y ago
    A society determines which harmful substances (and its effects on the individual and the society) it tolerates and how. Alcohol is in Germany tolerated (more than in the US) and it is also a huge legal business. I'm for tolerating both alcohol and cannabis, but without mass marketing (ads, ...). One struggle we face is the large inflow of other drugs, the resulting damage (for example from crack) currently from south America, the import of crime from there and the use of the drug business of legal cannabis business to expand their other drug business.
- jstanley 3y ago
  It makes sense if you care about both harm and liberty though. We've already decided alcohol is fine from a liberty perspective, so if the argument against cannabis is from a harm perspective, and cannabis is less harmful than alcohol, then cannabis should be fine too.
op00to 3y ago
Overconsumption is very dangerous for some, look up cannabis hyperemesis syndrome. It can be a help, but tolerance creeps quickly and encourages ever higher doses.
- meindnoch 3y ago
  Cannabis hypermedia syndrome? This is too funny... :D (obviously, you meant cannabis hyperemesis syndrome - https://www.cedars-sinai.org/health-library/diseases-and-conditions/c/cannabinoid-hyperemesis-syndrome.html https://www.cedars-sinai.org/health-library/diseases-and-con...)
  - op00to 3y ago
    lol autocorrect, thank you! hypermedia syndrome is worse - you end up watching teletubbies over and over. also causing scromiting.
    - remotefonts 3y ago
      I recommend some LSD with that Cannabis to truly appreciate the Teletubbies!

My (US) colleagues were bitterly disappointed that although the tracks on DTH's 1998 christmas album are available via YouTube, they were missing out on the liner note recipe for Christstollen nach Alice B. Toklas'r Art: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wir_warten_auf’s_Christkind#Artwork https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wir_warten_auf’s_Christkind#Ar... ; don't germans have at least a half century experience with cannabis v. alcohol by now? EDIT: even Duden knows how to kiff (schwaches Verb; Perfektbildung mit „hat“), see https://www.duden.de/konjugation/kiffen https://www.duden.de/konjugation/kiffen

lambdaba 3y ago

It's also far less dangerous for general health than sugar, which is ubiquitous and fed to children with no restraints. There is no argument for health to restrict cannabis for adults, the risks are well-known, and people are engaging in it, particularly in abuse, with full knowledge. Even the dangers of sugar are still not so well-known, as supermarket shelves demonstrate.

WA 3y ago
THC is a hallucinogen. It can trigger psychosis. I know a person who committed suicide because of this. I know more people who kinda threw their lives away and became total slackers, because they were high all the time in their late teens. A single dose is probably irrelevant for health. But I’d argue that (mental) health would suffer way more than compared to all health effects of sugar. I’m not against legalizing cannabis, but the cannabis community downplays the risks of regular consumption a lot.
- rpdillon 3y ago
  THC is not a hallucinogen, it's a cannabinoid. How do you know the cause of your acquaintance's suicide?
- lambdaba 3y ago
  > But I’d argue that (mental) health would suffer way more than compared to all health effects of sugar. Have you seen the mental health statistics? What they all have in common in having been raised, and living on, refined sugar (and other foods unsuitable for human consumption), not cannabis. I'm not saying cannabis is a always a good idea, but even so mainly because it's often in the context of having already frail health, and combination, oftentimes with literal poisons like alcohol. There's a huge hypocrisy around it being a question of public health; it's not, if it were, sugar would be highly taxed and regulated (esp. not being marketed to children), alcohol would be banned, etc. It still surprises me this hasn't permeated yet, as the information is now widely available.

Amezarak 3y ago

I've always been puzzled by the argument that, since cannabis is less dangerous than alcohol, we should therefore remove legal disincentives for cannabis consumption rather than the seemingly more logical conclusion we should try to disincentivize alcohol consumption. If it is a matter of harm, you don't remove disincentives on less harmful things simply because there are less/no disincentives on more harmful things. Of course, if we're instead making an argument about liberty, matters are different.

gryzzly 3y ago
"disincentivising", also known as "war on drugs" is making criminals more rich and police more corrupt. "dry laws" have also mostly resulted in proliferation of illegal alcohol sales and criminal groups dealing with that. perhaps harm reduction should be dealt with in a different way than prohibition and use of force.
- cies 3y ago
  > is making criminals more rich and police more corrupt. And youngsters who smoke weed in the streets learn to hate cops. Which may or may not be a bad thing.
- lispm 3y ago
  A society determines which harmful substances (and its effects on the individual and the society) it tolerates and how. Alcohol is in Germany tolerated (more than in the US) and it is also a huge legal business. I'm for tolerating both alcohol and cannabis, but without mass marketing (ads, ...). One struggle we face is the large inflow of other drugs, the resulting damage (for example from crack) currently from south America, the import of crime from there and the use of the drug business of legal cannabis business to expand their other drug business.
jstanley 3y ago
It makes sense if you care about both harm and liberty though. We've already decided alcohol is fine from a liberty perspective, so if the argument against cannabis is from a harm perspective, and cannabis is less harmful than alcohol, then cannabis should be fine too.

op00to 3y ago

Overconsumption is very dangerous for some, look up cannabis hyperemesis syndrome. It can be a help, but tolerance creeps quickly and encourages ever higher doses.

meindnoch 3y ago
Cannabis hypermedia syndrome? This is too funny... :D (obviously, you meant cannabis hyperemesis syndrome - https://www.cedars-sinai.org/health-library/diseases-and-conditions/c/cannabinoid-hyperemesis-syndrome.html https://www.cedars-sinai.org/health-library/diseases-and-con...)
- op00to 3y ago
  lol autocorrect, thank you! hypermedia syndrome is worse - you end up watching teletubbies over and over. also causing scromiting.
  - remotefonts 3y ago
    I recommend some LSD with that Cannabis to truly appreciate the Teletubbies!