4 ms·

It is pretty unlikely that this will stay. The next federal elections are almost exactly one year from now and the opposition parties are by and large against t

It is pretty unlikely that this will stay. The next federal elections are almost exactly one year from now and the opposition parties are by and large against the law. Also, as the article says the law mandates a re-evaluation after 18 months, so even in the unlikely event that the current government continues it is far from certain, that this law survives.

082349872349872 3y ago
I was taking the train south to north through Switzerland about 20 years ago (back when they still had smoking cars) and the kids in the Abteil in front of me were smoking some kind of funny smelling cigarettes that didn't stay lit. The conductor came stamping down the aisle, with a grim look upon his face, and started to chew the kids out. They apologised, and he left, whereupon they continued to kiff but promptly put newspapers down on the seats across, protecting them from their shoes while they had their feet up...
- cies 3y ago
  Smell of cigars is worse (yes, that's an opinion), but "legal".
  - weinzierl 3y ago
    I never understood how people could smoke cigarettes- they just smell awful. Cigars on the other hand, I could get used to that.
Kelteseth 3y ago
We'll see. I'm hopefully optimistic that will show that cannabis is far less dangerous than alcohol.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  My (US) colleagues were bitterly disappointed that although the tracks on DTH's 1998 christmas album are available via YouTube, they were missing out on the liner note recipe for Christstollen nach Alice B. Toklas'r Art: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wir_warten_auf’s_Christkind#Artwork https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wir_warten_auf’s_Christkind#Ar... ; don't germans have at least a half century experience with cannabis v. alcohol by now? EDIT: even Duden knows how to kiff (schwaches Verb; Perfektbildung mit „hat“), see https://www.duden.de/konjugation/kiffen https://www.duden.de/konjugation/kiffen
- lambdaba 3y ago
  It's also far less dangerous for general health than sugar, which is ubiquitous and fed to children with no restraints. There is no argument for health to restrict cannabis for adults, the risks are well-known, and people are engaging in it, particularly in abuse, with full knowledge. Even the dangers of sugar are still not so well-known, as supermarket shelves demonstrate.
  - WA 3y ago
    THC is a hallucinogen. It can trigger psychosis. I know a person who committed suicide because of this. I know more people who kinda threw their lives away and became total slackers, because they were high all the time in their late teens. A single dose is probably irrelevant for health. But I’d argue that (mental) health would suffer way more than compared to all health effects of sugar. I’m not against legalizing cannabis, but the cannabis community downplays the risks of regular consumption a lot.
    - rpdillon 3y ago
      THC is not a hallucinogen, it's a cannabinoid. How do you know the cause of your acquaintance's suicide?
    - lambdaba 3y ago
      > But I’d argue that (mental) health would suffer way more than compared to all health effects of sugar. Have you seen the mental health statistics? What they all have in common in having been raised, and living on, refined sugar (and other foods unsuitable for human consumption), not cannabis. I'm not saying cannabis is a always a good idea, but even so mainly because it's often in the context of having already frail health, and combination, oftentimes with literal poisons like alcohol. There's a huge hypocrisy around it being a question of public health; it's not, if it were, sugar would be highly taxed and regulated (esp. not being marketed to children), alcohol would be banned, etc. It still surprises me this hasn't permeated yet, as the information is now widely available.
- Amezarak 3y ago
  I've always been puzzled by the argument that, since cannabis is less dangerous than alcohol, we should therefore remove legal disincentives for cannabis consumption rather than the seemingly more logical conclusion we should try to disincentivize alcohol consumption. If it is a matter of harm, you don't remove disincentives on less harmful things simply because there are less/no disincentives on more harmful things. Of course, if we're instead making an argument about liberty, matters are different.
  - gryzzly 3y ago
    "disincentivising", also known as "war on drugs" is making criminals more rich and police more corrupt. "dry laws" have also mostly resulted in proliferation of illegal alcohol sales and criminal groups dealing with that. perhaps harm reduction should be dealt with in a different way than prohibition and use of force.
    - cies 3y ago
      > is making criminals more rich and police more corrupt. And youngsters who smoke weed in the streets learn to hate cops. Which may or may not be a bad thing.
    - lispm 3y ago
      A society determines which harmful substances (and its effects on the individual and the society) it tolerates and how. Alcohol is in Germany tolerated (more than in the US) and it is also a huge legal business. I'm for tolerating both alcohol and cannabis, but without mass marketing (ads, ...). One struggle we face is the large inflow of other drugs, the resulting damage (for example from crack) currently from south America, the import of crime from there and the use of the drug business of legal cannabis business to expand their other drug business.
  - jstanley 3y ago
    It makes sense if you care about both harm and liberty though. We've already decided alcohol is fine from a liberty perspective, so if the argument against cannabis is from a harm perspective, and cannabis is less harmful than alcohol, then cannabis should be fine too.
- op00to 3y ago
  Overconsumption is very dangerous for some, look up cannabis hyperemesis syndrome. It can be a help, but tolerance creeps quickly and encourages ever higher doses.
  - meindnoch 3y ago
    Cannabis hypermedia syndrome? This is too funny... :D (obviously, you meant cannabis hyperemesis syndrome - https://www.cedars-sinai.org/health-library/diseases-and-conditions/c/cannabinoid-hyperemesis-syndrome.html https://www.cedars-sinai.org/health-library/diseases-and-con...)
    - op00to 3y ago
      lol autocorrect, thank you! hypermedia syndrome is worse - you end up watching teletubbies over and over. also causing scromiting.
      - remotefonts 3y ago
        I recommend some LSD with that Cannabis to truly appreciate the Teletubbies!
ofrzeta 3y ago
Obviously the re-evaluation will show no positive effects on the black market because there's no legal way to buy your drugs (aside from home-grown or cannabis social clubs).
- iknowbettah 3y ago
  So there's a giant black market in spain? No. Everyone just goes to a fucking social club down their street.
iknowbettah 3y ago
Only the right are against it and if we vote for them we have much bigger problems like mass deportation and more policing...
- weinzierl 3y ago
  That is not true, support in the current coalition is already weak. There is a reason why this law took almost until the end of the election period to come to pass. Especially our current health minister, who is responsible for the law, is well know for being against legalization. He only bowed to the pressure of the coalition.
arrrg 3y ago
Don’t underestimate the power of status quo. Also, how unpopular it is to criminalize things. Also, Germany has coalition governments. As long as there is no CDU/CSU and AfD coalition (and then Germany would have worse problems than recreational marijuana) at least one of the currently governing parties will be part of the next coalition. Given that together with how hard the status quo is to change I’m relatively optimistic. Even though the conservative highly irrational, science and fact denying course is deeply worrying. So they might be ready to govern with fascists. But then, as I said, recreational marijuana is not my most pressing worry.
- weinzierl 3y ago
  That is very true but I am still doubtful for the future of this law even in the light of a new coalition, because the support for this law specifically or legalization in general or both in the current one is already weak.

082349872349872 3y ago

I was taking the train south to north through Switzerland about 20 years ago (back when they still had smoking cars) and the kids in the Abteil in front of me were smoking some kind of funny smelling cigarettes that didn't stay lit. The conductor came stamping down the aisle, with a grim look upon his face, and started to chew the kids out. They apologised, and he left, whereupon they continued to kiff but promptly put newspapers down on the seats across, protecting them from their shoes while they had their feet up...

cies 3y ago
Smell of cigars is worse (yes, that's an opinion), but "legal".
- weinzierl 3y ago
  I never understood how people could smoke cigarettes- they just smell awful. Cigars on the other hand, I could get used to that.

Kelteseth 3y ago

We'll see. I'm hopefully optimistic that will show that cannabis is far less dangerous than alcohol.

082349872349872 3y ago
My (US) colleagues were bitterly disappointed that although the tracks on DTH's 1998 christmas album are available via YouTube, they were missing out on the liner note recipe for Christstollen nach Alice B. Toklas'r Art: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wir_warten_auf’s_Christkind#Artwork https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wir_warten_auf’s_Christkind#Ar... ; don't germans have at least a half century experience with cannabis v. alcohol by now? EDIT: even Duden knows how to kiff (schwaches Verb; Perfektbildung mit „hat“), see https://www.duden.de/konjugation/kiffen https://www.duden.de/konjugation/kiffen
lambdaba 3y ago
It's also far less dangerous for general health than sugar, which is ubiquitous and fed to children with no restraints. There is no argument for health to restrict cannabis for adults, the risks are well-known, and people are engaging in it, particularly in abuse, with full knowledge. Even the dangers of sugar are still not so well-known, as supermarket shelves demonstrate.
- WA 3y ago
  THC is a hallucinogen. It can trigger psychosis. I know a person who committed suicide because of this. I know more people who kinda threw their lives away and became total slackers, because they were high all the time in their late teens. A single dose is probably irrelevant for health. But I’d argue that (mental) health would suffer way more than compared to all health effects of sugar. I’m not against legalizing cannabis, but the cannabis community downplays the risks of regular consumption a lot.
  - rpdillon 3y ago
    THC is not a hallucinogen, it's a cannabinoid. How do you know the cause of your acquaintance's suicide?
  - lambdaba 3y ago
    > But I’d argue that (mental) health would suffer way more than compared to all health effects of sugar. Have you seen the mental health statistics? What they all have in common in having been raised, and living on, refined sugar (and other foods unsuitable for human consumption), not cannabis. I'm not saying cannabis is a always a good idea, but even so mainly because it's often in the context of having already frail health, and combination, oftentimes with literal poisons like alcohol. There's a huge hypocrisy around it being a question of public health; it's not, if it were, sugar would be highly taxed and regulated (esp. not being marketed to children), alcohol would be banned, etc. It still surprises me this hasn't permeated yet, as the information is now widely available.
Amezarak 3y ago
I've always been puzzled by the argument that, since cannabis is less dangerous than alcohol, we should therefore remove legal disincentives for cannabis consumption rather than the seemingly more logical conclusion we should try to disincentivize alcohol consumption. If it is a matter of harm, you don't remove disincentives on less harmful things simply because there are less/no disincentives on more harmful things. Of course, if we're instead making an argument about liberty, matters are different.
- gryzzly 3y ago
  "disincentivising", also known as "war on drugs" is making criminals more rich and police more corrupt. "dry laws" have also mostly resulted in proliferation of illegal alcohol sales and criminal groups dealing with that. perhaps harm reduction should be dealt with in a different way than prohibition and use of force.
  - cies 3y ago
    > is making criminals more rich and police more corrupt. And youngsters who smoke weed in the streets learn to hate cops. Which may or may not be a bad thing.
  - lispm 3y ago
    A society determines which harmful substances (and its effects on the individual and the society) it tolerates and how. Alcohol is in Germany tolerated (more than in the US) and it is also a huge legal business. I'm for tolerating both alcohol and cannabis, but without mass marketing (ads, ...). One struggle we face is the large inflow of other drugs, the resulting damage (for example from crack) currently from south America, the import of crime from there and the use of the drug business of legal cannabis business to expand their other drug business.
- jstanley 3y ago
  It makes sense if you care about both harm and liberty though. We've already decided alcohol is fine from a liberty perspective, so if the argument against cannabis is from a harm perspective, and cannabis is less harmful than alcohol, then cannabis should be fine too.
op00to 3y ago
Overconsumption is very dangerous for some, look up cannabis hyperemesis syndrome. It can be a help, but tolerance creeps quickly and encourages ever higher doses.
- meindnoch 3y ago
  Cannabis hypermedia syndrome? This is too funny... :D (obviously, you meant cannabis hyperemesis syndrome - https://www.cedars-sinai.org/health-library/diseases-and-conditions/c/cannabinoid-hyperemesis-syndrome.html https://www.cedars-sinai.org/health-library/diseases-and-con...)
  - op00to 3y ago
    lol autocorrect, thank you! hypermedia syndrome is worse - you end up watching teletubbies over and over. also causing scromiting.
    - remotefonts 3y ago
      I recommend some LSD with that Cannabis to truly appreciate the Teletubbies!

ofrzeta 3y ago

Obviously the re-evaluation will show no positive effects on the black market because there's no legal way to buy your drugs (aside from home-grown or cannabis social clubs).

iknowbettah 3y ago
So there's a giant black market in spain? No. Everyone just goes to a fucking social club down their street.

iknowbettah 3y ago

Only the right are against it and if we vote for them we have much bigger problems like mass deportation and more policing...

weinzierl 3y ago
That is not true, support in the current coalition is already weak. There is a reason why this law took almost until the end of the election period to come to pass. Especially our current health minister, who is responsible for the law, is well know for being against legalization. He only bowed to the pressure of the coalition.

arrrg 3y ago

Don’t underestimate the power of status quo. Also, how unpopular it is to criminalize things. Also, Germany has coalition governments. As long as there is no CDU/CSU and AfD coalition (and then Germany would have worse problems than recreational marijuana) at least one of the currently governing parties will be part of the next coalition. Given that together with how hard the status quo is to change I’m relatively optimistic. Even though the conservative highly irrational, science and fact denying course is deeply worrying. So they might be ready to govern with fascists. But then, as I said, recreational marijuana is not my most pressing worry.

weinzierl 3y ago
That is very true but I am still doubtful for the future of this law even in the light of a new coalition, because the support for this law specifically or legalization in general or both in the current one is already weak.