3 ms·

How are workers incentivized against unions? From my perspective there's little downside.

by darby_eight 3y ago

cpursley 3y ago
Do you know much about the history of unions in the US and the monsters many of them became?
- darby_eight 3y ago
  Unions have the same issues most organizations have, the same opportunity for dysfunction that all forms of hierarchy imply. Meanwhile the lack of collective leverage poses a real problem for my individual compensation—I'm not about to try to outstrip my coworkers in efforts to get compensated, life is too short for that ratfuckery.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - michaelt 3y ago
    > Meanwhile the lack of collective leverage poses a real problem for my individual compensation Aren't Silicon Valley programmers in the top 1% for total household income? People on HN give me the impression that graduates with no experience get paid six figures and it's considered poverty level.
    - darby_eight 3y ago
      > People on HN give me the impression that graduates with no experience get paid six figures and it's considered poverty level. If you think anything in this thread is implying salaried tech workers are trying to pass themselves off as poor I probably can't communicate with you on any level. I apologize for whatever rhetoric I used.
- dotancohen 3y ago
  That sounds like this dismissing spaceflight based on the recent failures of Boeing. Some implementations can fail, that does not invalidate the entire idea.
  - cpursley 3y ago
    I'm not dismissing anything, I'm pointing out the history of unions in the US and the reasons for the backlash behind them. And I'm not anti-union, any group has the right to organize for any purpose in free societies. Even libertarians like Ron Paul are pro-union.
deely3 3y ago
Closure of office, or branch, and possibly opportunity to never work with this company or in this industry thats not a little downside. Of course its technically illegal, but reality could be harsh.
- bregma 3y ago
  That's not a problem with unions. That's a problem with the capture of labour regulation by greedy capitalists. It's just another manifestation of enclosure. Don't blame the symptoms for the problem.
  - deely3 3y ago
    Can't agree. Thats a real problem related to unions and we can't ignore it. We live in a real world. Its that simple.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> there's little downside Top performers may be concerned about having their wings clipped. Hollywood is a good counter-example. But American auto unions, for example, created the precedent of a rush to mediocrity. (The politics of many American union organisers may also gives someone earning a top Silicon Valley wage pause.)

How are workers incentivized against unions? From my perspective there's little downside.

cpursley 3y ago

Do you know much about the history of unions in the US and the monsters many of them became?

darby_eight 3y ago
Unions have the same issues most organizations have, the same opportunity for dysfunction that all forms of hierarchy imply. Meanwhile the lack of collective leverage poses a real problem for my individual compensation—I'm not about to try to outstrip my coworkers in efforts to get compensated, life is too short for that ratfuckery.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- michaelt 3y ago
  > Meanwhile the lack of collective leverage poses a real problem for my individual compensation Aren't Silicon Valley programmers in the top 1% for total household income? People on HN give me the impression that graduates with no experience get paid six figures and it's considered poverty level.
  - darby_eight 3y ago
    > People on HN give me the impression that graduates with no experience get paid six figures and it's considered poverty level. If you think anything in this thread is implying salaried tech workers are trying to pass themselves off as poor I probably can't communicate with you on any level. I apologize for whatever rhetoric I used.
dotancohen 3y ago
That sounds like this dismissing spaceflight based on the recent failures of Boeing. Some implementations can fail, that does not invalidate the entire idea.
- cpursley 3y ago
  I'm not dismissing anything, I'm pointing out the history of unions in the US and the reasons for the backlash behind them. And I'm not anti-union, any group has the right to organize for any purpose in free societies. Even libertarians like Ron Paul are pro-union.

deely3 3y ago

Closure of office, or branch, and possibly opportunity to never work with this company or in this industry thats not a little downside. Of course its technically illegal, but reality could be harsh.

bregma 3y ago
That's not a problem with unions. That's a problem with the capture of labour regulation by greedy capitalists. It's just another manifestation of enclosure. Don't blame the symptoms for the problem.
- deely3 3y ago
  Can't agree. Thats a real problem related to unions and we can't ignore it. We live in a real world. Its that simple.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> there's little downside Top performers may be concerned about having their wings clipped. Hollywood is a good counter-example. But American auto unions, for example, created the precedent of a rush to mediocrity. (The politics of many American union organisers may also gives someone earning a top Silicon Valley wage pause.)