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Yup - I hate the HR hype (you're HR right) that "OMG LOOK @ WUT WE PAYZ!!!!111". I've spent the past 10+ years as a defense contractor working cleared programs
by dsolomon 14y ago
Yup - I hate the HR hype (you're HR right) that "OMG LOOK @ WUT WE PAYZ!!!!111".
I've spent the past 10+ years as a defense contractor working cleared programs. I've seen all sorts of sleazy work done by HR and management to push salaries down.
- Justify your position - done 2x yearly
- Switching you from one project to another that has less benefits associated with it (this means the company doesn't have to pay their portion, so it's a larger profit margin for them)
- Not reimbursing for directed travel
- Full Time Employee required to pay for hardware/software to do the job
- Assigned a primary health provider closest to work so as to minimize out of office time; or assigned one on the other side of the state; in this scenario it would have meant a 2+ hour drive one way
- Bait and switch with employee referrals (suddenly not qualified for the bonus because a recruiting subcontractor had contacted them 2 years ago - no documented contact, but let the employee prove otherwise)
But who do you think fills out those salary surveys - HR/management. Do you believe that they'd be honest. They have a vested interest in stacking something like Glassdoor - prospective clients use it. Clients want a workforce that's "happy". They'll pay more for it because the perception is better output and low turnover. So the company has ensured a good payday for themselves, low employee expenditure rate, and the work is still being done. Of course with one project I worked the turnover was a killer (140%+ at the 30 month mark, 6 program managers, 5 deputy program managers, least amount of time someone was here before they said f*ck it was 22 hrs) - but profit is profit.
So keep believing in your vision that companies, managers, and HR speak the truth.
- sciurus 14y agoHave you even tried to get out of the defense contracting world and work at one of the non-shitty jobs that commenters here keep futilely trying to tell you exist?
- grumps 14y agoThat can be exteremly hard, if you're not writing code. Not all the roles and responsibilities directly translate to the world of private industry. For example a Systems Engineer in defense is loosely a product manager/ architect. However, it's impossible to get show all the responsibilities translate. Try explaining that to a recruiter... It tried for months.
- vonmoltke 14y agoI was in that boat for ~2 years (got out of it a little over a month ago). My problem was reduced in some respects, while amplified in others, because on my program systems engineers were developing signal processing algorithms[0] and implementing them in real-time signal processing software, in C. This caused all sorts of partial mismatches and misunderstandings, but ultimately the software piece got me out of there. [edit] I would like to add that not being able to discuss what I did in meaningful detail was the most serious hindrance to my job search. [0] This bit caused its own problems with a few companies, who saw "algorithms" and thought something else.
- grumps 14y agoYea, I'm pretty much a pure systems engineer. I'm working on teaching my self some code but it's not going to get me out of there. It's rough... I'm close though. Hopefully in a few weeks life will change.
- dsolomon 14y agoSeriously. Try explaining PfM, UML, DoDAF or FEAF, to a recruiter. Or Troux, Primavera, System Architect, or DOORS. Or why ISSEP/ISSAP can be critical. All while the recruiter is trying to do their job asking "Do you know C hashtag?" ... LOLWUT.
- dsolomon 14y agoYup, got called by Google. The "senior talent management engineer" had no idea what 'cost control measures' were. If within the first 10 seconds you can't tell me if I've got to pay out of pocket for visual studio of whatever else, then get lost.
- notJim 14y agoWhy are you even talking about that kind of thing in the first 10 seconds of talking to a recruiter? Discuss the terms of the job after you get offered the job. Plus, I mean, have you done any research into the degree of coddling Google employees receive? You really think they provide you 3 gourmet meals per day, but not with the basic tools to perform your job?
- dsolomon 14y agoI'm not sitting through 4 or more rounds of interviews with recruiters, senior recruiters, recruiter managers, technical recruiters, senior technical recruiters, technical recruiter managers, to finally reach the person capable of making a decision. And exactly how can a recruiter brag about the company "gourmet" cafeteria (I'll pass on getting food poisoning from another gourmet cafeteria again), but doesn't know if the company provides the equipment? It's they don't know, or more accurately won't disclose, then I'm just hanging up. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.
- notJim 14y ago> I'm not sitting through 4 or more rounds of interviews with recruiters, senior recruiters, recruiter managers, technical recruiters, senior technical recruiters, technical recruiter managers, to finally reach the person capable of making a decision. Well that's a problem. What you think they're going to hire you because of your charm and winning personality? And honestly, I seriously doubt there are many people who would doubt that google provides their employees with the basic tools to do their jobs. It's simply one of the most absurd things I've read.
- 14y ago
- jarek 14y agoUm, trying not to be rude, but that's a problem you have, not a problem software developers have. Inflating reported salaries and then keeping some of the money for yourself might be a problem with people who use contractors. For normal companies using salaried employees, reporting inflated numbers make no sense. (Though note that for recruiting companies inflating salaries does make sense - but this benefits the developers as well as the recruiters.) Get yourself on a salary with a respectable tech-oriented company. I worked for an average digital agency where none of your points applied to me, I was paid more out of school than your contractors, and to top it off I actually liked our HR.
- dsolomon 14y agoIt's industry wide actually. We are salaried employees of these companies: http://washingtontechnology.com/toplists/top-100-lists/2011.aspx http://washingtontechnology.com/toplists/top-100-lists/2011.... Finding a quality company is a pain. Recruiters lie to get their 10% to 15%. Companies bait/switch - continued employment constitutes implied consent when dealing with benefits, and the list goes on.
- jarek 14y agoSwitch the industry. You can get $50k/year swinging Drupal code with no questions asked or qualifications required. I am honestly confused as to why you'd stay in this horrible environment.
- dsolomon 14y agoAll companies are like this. I've been with four companies: 3 with big, big names, the other was mid-sized (about 700 people). All listed here: http://washingtontechnology.com/toplists/top-100-lists/2011.aspx http://washingtontechnology.com/toplists/top-100-lists/2011.... 1 in the top 10, 1 in the top 20, 1 in the top 30, and 1 in the top 50. They're all like that. If they can't (or won't) answer about cost control measures, then they're crap. 50K/yr for drupal. LOL. We've got developers working with VB/C# and TFS for $65K/yr. Another developer doing coldfusion for 60K. And all with top secret cleances and DoD 8570 certs. Just the industry standard. I think everyone has seen the recruiter spam for companies that offer free drinks. How about a medical plan where I can chose which provided to see - not be assigned one 2 hours away. Keep the free candy bar, and give me a 401K instead.
- notJim 14y agoYour job sounds terrible, and you seem bitter about it. It doesn't have to be like that. I would think long and hard if I were you about figuring out what you can do to find a job you find more satisfactory.
- grumps 14y agooh no my objective is pretty clear. GET OUT. Now I just need a requirements/Project Management/Product Manager/Developer Buffer role... :-/