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And that is stuff Apple absolutely does. I have been at a company for which Apple was a customer. But you'd think that Apple owned the company the way they thro

by bmitc 3y ago

And that is stuff Apple absolutely does. I have been at a company for which Apple was a customer. But you'd think that Apple owned the company the way they through around their power and demands.

fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago
It's like that everywhere unfortunately. You get a client with enough disparity in size and they are pretty much calling the shots. Can't even imagine that scaled up to Apple size.
- _gabe_ 3y ago
  It’s not though. My company partners with several other Apple sized and larger tech companies. Some are better than others, and we have running jokes about the ones that like to try to throw around their weight. Because, as you might expect, they are unpleasant to work with.
  - galaxyofdoom 3y ago
    how many tech companies are apple sized or larger? i think youre full of shit.
    - DowagerDave 3y ago
      very few companies sign an agreement with "Apple". You sell a good or service to a single person, small group or maybe a department. There are countless customers this size, the difference is do they treat you like they are the embodiment of "Apple"? We have lots of big, well-known clients and for the most part they do not.
      - ryanbrunner 3y ago
        I mean, Apple does have a procurement process. If you're selling at the large team / department level or up (i.e. not individuals within Apple), you're dealing with "Apple" at least for the sale through security and contract reviews, etc.
    - _gabe_ 3y ago
      Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Meta, OpenAI, Intel, Nvidia, AMD, Netflix just to name a few.
  - BehindBlueEyes 3y ago
    From experience, the size doesn’t matter as much as the delta in revenue, or size of that client’s project vs. typical projects. And on the flip side some of the clients that paid least were the hardest to get to sign off on projects, but at least those don’t actually think they’re entitled to harass your team.
- Jensson 3y ago
  > Can't even imagine that scaled up to Apple size. Have you ever dealt with a big government? Then you can imagine, Apple doesn't have as much weight as typical governments but it is close.
  - xpe 3y ago
    Typical how? Weight as defined how? Here is one way of looking at it. First, look at purchasing power of various governments. See https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/real-gdp-purchasing-power-parity/country-comparison/ https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/real-gdp-purcha.... > Real GDP (purchasing power parity): GDP (purchasing power parity) compares the gross domestic product (GDP) or value of all final goods and services produced within a nation in a given year. A nation's GDP at purchasing power parity (PPP) exchange rates is the sum value of all goods and services produced in the country valued at prices prevailing in the United States. Second, look at COGS for Apple: "Apple annual cost of goods sold for 2021 was $212.981B" according to https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/cost-goods-sold https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/cost-go.... COGS is arguably "close enough" to a nation-state's GDP to make for a useful comparison. Given the above two, if Apple were a country with a GDP matching its COGS, it would rank about 66th, using a mix of 2022/2021 numbers from the sources above: 1 China $24,861B 2 United States $21,132B 3 India $9,279B 4 Japan $5,126B 5 Germany $4,523B 6 Russia $4,027B 7 Indonesia $3,246B 8 United Kingdom $3,136B 9 Brazil $3,128B 10 France $3,048B 11 Turkey $2,817B 12 Italy $2,478B 13 Mexico $2,418B 14 South Korea $2,289B 15 Canada $1,832B ... 36 Switzerland $618B 37 Belgium $600B 38 Sweden $580B 39 Singapore $578B 40 Ireland $516B ... 63 Kenya $251B 64 New Zealand $220B 65 Burma $217B 66 Dominican Republic $207B 67 Angola $204B 68 Kuwait $192B 69 Ecuador $190B 70 Belarus $184B ... 150 Namibia $23.1B 151 Kosovo $21.2B 152 South Sudan $20.0B 153 Iceland $20.0B 154 Somalia $19.4B ... 220 Palau $248M 221 Falkland Islands $206M 222 Anguilla $175M 223 Montserrat $167M 224 Nauru $149M 225 Wallis and Futuna $60M 226 Tuvalu $55.2M 227 Saint Helena... $31.1M 228 Niue $18.7M 229 Tokelau $7.7M But I wouldn't stop here. What happens if we compare Apple's COGS with the _technology spend_ of each of the nation-states above? If we estimate that 10% of GDP is technology-related, making it comparable to Apple, then Apple's ranking would be 15th on the list, right in front of Canada.
- osigurdson 3y ago
  It should be based in size of contract, not size of company. If Apple wants to buy a stick of bubble gum from me, they go to the back of the line like everyone else. If my contract with Apple represents 80% of revenues for the year, yeah, they own me.
  - fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago
    > If Apple wants to buy a stick of bubble gum from me, they go to the back of the line like everyone else Unless you're the people I've worked for, you would drop everything for the chance to impress Apple. But my comment did have the false assumption that the contract size would be large.
    - zdragnar 3y ago
      It's a trap! The notion that doing well on a small contract will net you bigger and bigger ones is a nice fantasy, but I've not seen it play out. I have seen it crush a lot of hopes and dreams, though. The reality is (IMHO) running a small contract and running a big one requires different skills sets, procedures in place, etc. Doing well at one will not guarantee doing well at another, and I think they know it.
      - highapr 3y ago
        so true. got my ass handed to me chasing a large client and their promises of massive expansion with a bit of exclusivity. We got over exposed because I ignored some of the risks involved, and the large firm ultimately found a similar sized firm that could offer mostly the same product, with the benefit of also being a public company.

by bmitc 3y ago

And that is stuff Apple absolutely does. I have been at a company for which Apple was a customer. But you'd think that Apple owned the company the way they through around their power and demands.

fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago

It's like that everywhere unfortunately. You get a client with enough disparity in size and they are pretty much calling the shots. Can't even imagine that scaled up to Apple size.

_gabe_ 3y ago
It’s not though. My company partners with several other Apple sized and larger tech companies. Some are better than others, and we have running jokes about the ones that like to try to throw around their weight. Because, as you might expect, they are unpleasant to work with.
- galaxyofdoom 3y ago
  how many tech companies are apple sized or larger? i think youre full of shit.
  - DowagerDave 3y ago
    very few companies sign an agreement with "Apple". You sell a good or service to a single person, small group or maybe a department. There are countless customers this size, the difference is do they treat you like they are the embodiment of "Apple"? We have lots of big, well-known clients and for the most part they do not.
    - ryanbrunner 3y ago
      I mean, Apple does have a procurement process. If you're selling at the large team / department level or up (i.e. not individuals within Apple), you're dealing with "Apple" at least for the sale through security and contract reviews, etc.
  - _gabe_ 3y ago
    Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Meta, OpenAI, Intel, Nvidia, AMD, Netflix just to name a few.
- BehindBlueEyes 3y ago
  From experience, the size doesn’t matter as much as the delta in revenue, or size of that client’s project vs. typical projects. And on the flip side some of the clients that paid least were the hardest to get to sign off on projects, but at least those don’t actually think they’re entitled to harass your team.
Jensson 3y ago
> Can't even imagine that scaled up to Apple size. Have you ever dealt with a big government? Then you can imagine, Apple doesn't have as much weight as typical governments but it is close.
- xpe 3y ago
  Typical how? Weight as defined how? Here is one way of looking at it. First, look at purchasing power of various governments. See https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/real-gdp-purchasing-power-parity/country-comparison/ https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/real-gdp-purcha.... > Real GDP (purchasing power parity): GDP (purchasing power parity) compares the gross domestic product (GDP) or value of all final goods and services produced within a nation in a given year. A nation's GDP at purchasing power parity (PPP) exchange rates is the sum value of all goods and services produced in the country valued at prices prevailing in the United States. Second, look at COGS for Apple: "Apple annual cost of goods sold for 2021 was $212.981B" according to https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/cost-goods-sold https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/cost-go.... COGS is arguably "close enough" to a nation-state's GDP to make for a useful comparison. Given the above two, if Apple were a country with a GDP matching its COGS, it would rank about 66th, using a mix of 2022/2021 numbers from the sources above: 1 China $24,861B 2 United States $21,132B 3 India $9,279B 4 Japan $5,126B 5 Germany $4,523B 6 Russia $4,027B 7 Indonesia $3,246B 8 United Kingdom $3,136B 9 Brazil $3,128B 10 France $3,048B 11 Turkey $2,817B 12 Italy $2,478B 13 Mexico $2,418B 14 South Korea $2,289B 15 Canada $1,832B ... 36 Switzerland $618B 37 Belgium $600B 38 Sweden $580B 39 Singapore $578B 40 Ireland $516B ... 63 Kenya $251B 64 New Zealand $220B 65 Burma $217B 66 Dominican Republic $207B 67 Angola $204B 68 Kuwait $192B 69 Ecuador $190B 70 Belarus $184B ... 150 Namibia $23.1B 151 Kosovo $21.2B 152 South Sudan $20.0B 153 Iceland $20.0B 154 Somalia $19.4B ... 220 Palau $248M 221 Falkland Islands $206M 222 Anguilla $175M 223 Montserrat $167M 224 Nauru $149M 225 Wallis and Futuna $60M 226 Tuvalu $55.2M 227 Saint Helena... $31.1M 228 Niue $18.7M 229 Tokelau $7.7M But I wouldn't stop here. What happens if we compare Apple's COGS with the _technology spend_ of each of the nation-states above? If we estimate that 10% of GDP is technology-related, making it comparable to Apple, then Apple's ranking would be 15th on the list, right in front of Canada.
osigurdson 3y ago
It should be based in size of contract, not size of company. If Apple wants to buy a stick of bubble gum from me, they go to the back of the line like everyone else. If my contract with Apple represents 80% of revenues for the year, yeah, they own me.
- fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago
  > If Apple wants to buy a stick of bubble gum from me, they go to the back of the line like everyone else Unless you're the people I've worked for, you would drop everything for the chance to impress Apple. But my comment did have the false assumption that the contract size would be large.
  - zdragnar 3y ago
    It's a trap! The notion that doing well on a small contract will net you bigger and bigger ones is a nice fantasy, but I've not seen it play out. I have seen it crush a lot of hopes and dreams, though. The reality is (IMHO) running a small contract and running a big one requires different skills sets, procedures in place, etc. Doing well at one will not guarantee doing well at another, and I think they know it.
    - highapr 3y ago
      so true. got my ass handed to me chasing a large client and their promises of massive expansion with a bit of exclusivity. We got over exposed because I ignored some of the risks involved, and the large firm ultimately found a similar sized firm that could offer mostly the same product, with the benefit of also being a public company.