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I think the runaway success of p2p file sharing platforms (from Gnutella to Bittorrent and everything in between), Bitcoin and others prove that plenty of users

I think the runaway success of p2p file sharing platforms (from Gnutella to Bittorrent and everything in between), Bitcoin and others prove that plenty of users do want decentralized systems. It's interesting that you named a bunch of very large corporations who have a vested interest in users not having the choice of decentralized systems (which they cannot control or profit from) as "proof" that decentralized systems are not desirable.

pjmlp 3y ago
I use those on purpose, because they were there before Internet became a thing, using their proprietary systems, and after the Internet boom, the abstract set of "users" basically gathered around centralized systems that provide them the comfort to know where to go to, what to talk about with their friends and family. Where are Gnutella and Bittorrent now? Gone, in what non geeky users are concerned they never happened.
- persnickety 3y ago
  They were made gone by fiat, despite the demand and popularity they enjoyed. That does not support the conclusion that people don't want them. Indeed, torrenting never died, a testament to the demand.
- mindslight 3y ago
  Where are Compuserve, AOL, and MSN now?
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Replaced by Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Xing,...
- steve_rambo 3y ago
  I can't speak for Gnutella, but BitTorrent remains as popular as ever. Every non-technical acquaintance of mine is at least familiar with it, except for those over 70 years old. Most keep on using it. Flash-in-the-pan streaming platforms of the day come and go, this thing has endured and will outlive anything centralized.
  - Retr0id 3y ago
    You must be in some kind of bubble, even half the technical people I know are not regular BitTorrent users. Take pirated switch games for example, the root cause of this whole discussion. For a given game, you'll find 10 sketchy but fully functional direct-download sites before you find a magnet link. (Yes I'm sure your favorite private tracker has a great selection, but private tracker users are an even smaller niche within a niche)
Barrin92 3y ago
>I think the runaway success of p2p file sharing platforms (from Gnutella to BitTorrent and everything in between), Bitcoin and others The success of p2p file sharing platforms rested on the fact that people like piracy and free stuff, it didn't compete on service quality. Which became evident when most content became cheap and people switched. Same with Bitcoin, people buy into it because they want to speculate and buy a Lamborghini, I still can't go to any supermarket and pay in crypto because nobody really cares about making it a means of transaction for normal people.
- persnickety 3y ago
  You're using yourself as the yardstick for "normal people", but there are other "normal people" elsewhere (e.g. unstable economies) who rely on cryptocurrencies for use cases you don't have to worry about.
- ZaoLahma 3y ago
  > The success of p2p file sharing platforms rested on the fact that people like piracy and free stuff, it didn't compete on service quality. Which became evident when most content became cheap and people switched. Nah, it was absolutely about service quality. Absodefinitelutely. Back in the day it was either buying things on physical media and adjusting your living situation accordingly (having meters of shelves just to store it and media player(s) set up to play the media), OR sail the seas and have "your" entire media library stored away on a media server in the closet, easily accessible from the media center PC connected to your TV. Netflix before Netflix was a thing, essentially. Now, finally, they caught on and do provide a similar (in some ways higher) level of service as the "homebrew Netflix" solution from "þe aulde" days, and people are prepared to pay for it. I gladly pay the price for the different streaming services because of the convenience of having everything easily accessible in a format that doesn't take up all the space at my home. If that disappears though, I'll grumpily re-build the server in the closet and expand the sails again.
  - creshal 3y ago
    There's still plenty of people who don't want or can't pay for the official service... but these days, >90% use illegal streaming portals instead of p2p services, because the service quality is so much higher. No need for a server closet, when these sites are basically "netflix but you don't need to log in and they actually have what you want".
creshal 3y ago
People used them because they worked better than alternatives, not because they were p2p. Indeed, most people used them like centralized services by going to The Big Site We All Know and downloading things from there. That they weren't actually downloading the movie/game/etc from there was an ignorable implementation detail. Young people today use centralized streaming sites more, because they're easier to use. That they're not p2p isn't something any of them know or care about.

pjmlp 3y ago

I use those on purpose, because they were there before Internet became a thing, using their proprietary systems, and after the Internet boom, the abstract set of "users" basically gathered around centralized systems that provide them the comfort to know where to go to, what to talk about with their friends and family. Where are Gnutella and Bittorrent now? Gone, in what non geeky users are concerned they never happened.

persnickety 3y ago
They were made gone by fiat, despite the demand and popularity they enjoyed. That does not support the conclusion that people don't want them. Indeed, torrenting never died, a testament to the demand.
mindslight 3y ago
Where are Compuserve, AOL, and MSN now?
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Replaced by Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Xing,...
steve_rambo 3y ago
I can't speak for Gnutella, but BitTorrent remains as popular as ever. Every non-technical acquaintance of mine is at least familiar with it, except for those over 70 years old. Most keep on using it. Flash-in-the-pan streaming platforms of the day come and go, this thing has endured and will outlive anything centralized.
- Retr0id 3y ago
  You must be in some kind of bubble, even half the technical people I know are not regular BitTorrent users. Take pirated switch games for example, the root cause of this whole discussion. For a given game, you'll find 10 sketchy but fully functional direct-download sites before you find a magnet link. (Yes I'm sure your favorite private tracker has a great selection, but private tracker users are an even smaller niche within a niche)

Barrin92 3y ago

>I think the runaway success of p2p file sharing platforms (from Gnutella to BitTorrent and everything in between), Bitcoin and others The success of p2p file sharing platforms rested on the fact that people like piracy and free stuff, it didn't compete on service quality. Which became evident when most content became cheap and people switched. Same with Bitcoin, people buy into it because they want to speculate and buy a Lamborghini, I still can't go to any supermarket and pay in crypto because nobody really cares about making it a means of transaction for normal people.

persnickety 3y ago
You're using yourself as the yardstick for "normal people", but there are other "normal people" elsewhere (e.g. unstable economies) who rely on cryptocurrencies for use cases you don't have to worry about.
ZaoLahma 3y ago
> The success of p2p file sharing platforms rested on the fact that people like piracy and free stuff, it didn't compete on service quality. Which became evident when most content became cheap and people switched. Nah, it was absolutely about service quality. Absodefinitelutely. Back in the day it was either buying things on physical media and adjusting your living situation accordingly (having meters of shelves just to store it and media player(s) set up to play the media), OR sail the seas and have "your" entire media library stored away on a media server in the closet, easily accessible from the media center PC connected to your TV. Netflix before Netflix was a thing, essentially. Now, finally, they caught on and do provide a similar (in some ways higher) level of service as the "homebrew Netflix" solution from "þe aulde" days, and people are prepared to pay for it. I gladly pay the price for the different streaming services because of the convenience of having everything easily accessible in a format that doesn't take up all the space at my home. If that disappears though, I'll grumpily re-build the server in the closet and expand the sails again.
- creshal 3y ago
  There's still plenty of people who don't want or can't pay for the official service... but these days, >90% use illegal streaming portals instead of p2p services, because the service quality is so much higher. No need for a server closet, when these sites are basically "netflix but you don't need to log in and they actually have what you want".

creshal 3y ago

People used them because they worked better than alternatives, not because they were p2p. Indeed, most people used them like centralized services by going to The Big Site We All Know and downloading things from there. That they weren't actually downloading the movie/game/etc from there was an ignorable implementation detail. Young people today use centralized streaming sites more, because they're easier to use. That they're not p2p isn't something any of them know or care about.