8 ms·

Greece, Argentina and India are the fastest improving business environments

64 points by AlgoRitmo 3y ago

codingcodingboy 3y ago
Great to see Greece improving, meanwhile Italy is speedrunning its demise.
- TheCapeGreek 3y ago
  It's all relative. I speak to my Greek friends and family, mostly outside of tech, and the sentiment isn't yet as positive as the macro numbers in articles like this indicate. As a diaspora Greek, it's positive news, but it seems this all hasn't "trickled down" to citizens' day to day lives as much. It does give some hope for those who left for economic reasons, and there are even groups out there to encourage a return to restore the brain drain of the 2010s. That being said the elder population would probably be grumpy no matter how much things improved.
  - The_Colonel 3y ago
    > It's all relative. Exactly. Like, what was the outlook ten years ago? Possible exit from EU and euro, state bankruptcy, economic and political collapse. The stability and slow economic improvement might be a bad result for many countries, but for Greece it's IMHO a good result (for me, better than expected).
    - TheCapeGreek 3y ago
      Indeed. If you're still on X, or subscribe to newsletters, I can recommend The Greek Analyst[0]. He follows a lot of macro trends for Greece and makes an active effort to be a positive voice in the sea of Greek pessimism, including results like these "great result in relative context" pieces. [0] https://twitter.com/GreekAnalyst https://twitter.com/GreekAnalyst
  - BillyTheKing 3y ago
    One of the things with Greeks (in Greece) really is that they're notoriously pessimistic and depressed, unlike what people usually associate with the country. I do think though that there's a bit of a new spirit though among the younger generation which is slightly less focused on 2k year old history and a bit more realistic in the way they approach the world. But maybe that's just wishful thinking on my end
    - TheCapeGreek 3y ago
      I don't think it's wishful thinking. I think newer generations in times like these will tend to rebel against the attitude of their parents in any direction that takes them. With grumpy old Greeks, that means the younger generation are calmer and maybe more positive too. Life's too short to be miserable. I find the ancient and Byzantine history fascinating myself. Naturally the liberation struggles are also important, but the very religious and closer-to-present history and culture don't interest me as much. I also always found it quite hypocritical of the older generation that they biased towards the more recent history and the Orthodox religious aspects, but then they'd sell you trinkets of the ancient world while quietly ignoring the pagan nature of it. IMO, one of the last big issues with Greek culturally and in terms of economic opportunity for young adults, is mandatory conscription. I won't be returning for anything more than a holiday unless I get a permanent exemption. Many Greeks tend to ignore the opportunity cost this impacts young men with. It's not just "a forced gap year" since you have to do it regardless of if you study or not. By having emigrated before the peak of the crises around 2015, I avoided both wasting a year on conscription and finished my studies sooner. Anecdotally I'm pretty sure taking that leap was the best thing I could've done, considering what I know of my pees right now (highly educated, but overworked and underpaid).
      - BillyTheKing 3y ago
        I think that's spot on - what annoys me with some older Greeks is a fairly consistent 'look at our amazing history' attitude, as if they're ancestors of Gods. But then the actual culture is deeply rooted in Greek orthodoxy, driven by entirely different values, mostly pretty conservative. In reality, many older Greeks know relatively little about their own ancient history, or they focus on very specific aspects of it. Even though it's actually so colorful and full of human conflict and complexities. I believe it's important for the country to look beyond that history. Not saying one shouldn't be inspired by it, almost everyone in the West is somewhat inspired by it anyway. This is a piece of humanity that played out on the same geographical area as modern-day Greece with a somewhat similar language, but it's long gone. And I totally agree regarding conscription - if it were some sort of useful exercise for 6 months or so, one could probably make sense of it, but as it stands currently, it's a total waste of time.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  I remember being very negative about the Greek's long term outlook ~10 years ago. I mean, it was obvious that there will be an economic downturn for many years in basically all scenarios, but I was very worried about the political uproar, turn to populism and authoritarianism (which would further worsen the economic woes). IIRC there was an election in ~2015 which Syriza won, back then pretty radical in its anti-austerity campaign. But after they won, they made a turnaround and more or less went along with the austerity.
  - 4gotunameagain 3y ago
    The problem of Greece is that due to decades of nepotism and corruption, there is no real political hope. The ruling party is one of the two that has brought Greece to where it is now, and the prime minister comes from a family with a long tradition in politics and power thirst. His best man is the biggest gangster in Greece, Marinakis. They found a ship of his containing 2 TONS! of heroin, and nothing happened. Because the Mitsotakis family controls the court system in Greece. https://newrepublic.com/article/159252/noor-one-vampire-ship-heroin-turkey-greece-corruption-scandal https://newrepublic.com/article/159252/noor-one-vampire-ship...
    - georgeplusplus 3y ago
      Not to make an excuse, but tell me a country that isn't like that. For all the pomp and circumstance that democracy provides, it all feels like it boils down to tribalism where oligarchs rule and control the tides. Sure we all control our individual boats but the tide is what controls the sea.
      - blackhawkC17 3y ago
        There are many countries not run by an oligarchy. Sure every nation has an elite, but it’s a stretch to say that Germany, Sweden, Denmark, USA, and many other countries have an oligarchic system similar to how it is in Russia, Uzbekistan, and Kazakhstan.
huytersd 3y ago
Argentina?
- resolutebat 3y ago
  Last year the currency lost 75% of its value, this year it's only down 10% so far (in Q1), so perhaps that counts as improvement.
- derelicta 3y ago
  Some neoconservative politician roleplaying as an anarchist reached the country's top office. He's privatising everything on a speedrun, weakening all labour regulations, waging an economic war against China, the country's top economic partner, and promised he would forfeit the country's currency to the Americans by switching to dollars. So ig for foreign investors its now or never to plunder what's left of Argentina.
  - jdmoreira 3y ago
    He was democratically elected with this agenda. Maybe the people there were tired of the same old crony socialist disaster and rampant inflation plus accelerated loss of quality of live. I don't know, maybe what a country with great demographics and decent territory needs in this situation is a healthy dose of western/american capitalism. I would also much rather be allied to US agendas than to Chinese agendas ANY DAY.
    - zem 3y ago
      trump and modi were democratically elected too, so by itself that's no real measure of fitness for office.
      - soco 3y ago
        Aaaand the moment for the Godwin's law to kick in has arrived! And it's not even wrong in this context, I'd say.
    - 3y ago
BillyTheKing 3y ago
I'm half Greek, so obviously a little bias. But would love to see a more thriving tech scene in Athens. It's a cool city, with great night-life, great restaurants, and stunning places nearby, not yet super gentrified and obviously also has some archaeological sites. But it's not just 2000 years old history (yes, it's partly also pretty run-down, bureaucracy is a night-mare, etc.) Generally speaking, it's usually sunny all year around, winters are mild, summers are hot, but one can spend those on an Aegean island..
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Speaking of bias, I would rather see that as well in Thessaloniki. And better remote working conditions could be a way to diversify the islands economy beyond Summers.
  - TheCapeGreek 3y ago
    There is always the strategy of finding non-Greek companies to work remotely for, who will have a better work culture and remote ethic. For the economic argument, you'd still be bringing money into the country and stimulating the economy (and paying taxes), so it's not all doom and gloom that you aren't working for a Greek company to make Greece better.
    - pyvpx 3y ago
      except there is absolutely zero anything on permanent establishment rules. The Greek tax authorities could write one memo saying “hiring a director in Greece does not trigger permanent establishment” and that digital nomad visa program would really pop off. alas…nothing
      - TheCapeGreek 3y ago
        I don't condone nonlegal actions, but do they really check your source of income? Usually with such sorts of tax authorities I'd imagine they'd only pay attention if they notice large incomes or many people citing the same contracting source. IANAFA and not clued up on Greek tax myself.
tenlp 3y ago
After all, Argentina has sold a lot of state-owned enterprises this year. Having so much one-time income will definitely make the economy look better. As for the future, who cares? https://www.worldoil.com/news/2024/2/8/argentina-plans-sweeping-oil-and-gas-asset-sale-to-focus-on-shale-production/ https://www.worldoil.com/news/2024/2/8/argentina-plans-sweep...
- nikanj 3y ago
  They can just nationalize it in the next election cycle.
- pilaf 3y ago
  > After all, Argentina has sold a lot of state-owned enterprises this year Which ones? AFAIK government has stated intent to sell around 40 state-owned companies (expressed in a massive bill that got rejected by congress), but I don't know that any have been sold yet. Also YPF (state-owned oil company), the company your linked article is talking about, was removed from the list of companies to be sold even before the new legislation got rejected [1] (your article mentions this fact too). But also it seems your linked article is mainly talking about YPF selling assets, not the company being sold. 1: https://www.eleconomista.com.mx/empresas/Ley-omnibus-Milei-saca-a-YPF-de-lista-de-privatizaciones-20240122-0128.html https://www.eleconomista.com.mx/empresas/Ley-omnibus-Milei-s...
hnhg 3y ago
I am surprised to see Germany so high. Germany is a hostile place to start a company, especially if you are not German, not least because there is the issue of a very harsh and inflexible exit tax. Should you decide to leave Germany, even temporarily, you will be faced with a tax of around 30% of the current valuation of your worldwide holdings in companies. The rules for this became even harsher in 2021. I have obviously simplified everything for the sake of clarity but currently lawyers in Germany are advising people there to leave Germany before starting a company. Most of the information on this is in German but people should be aware of this before considering Germany as a place to start a company. You can read more here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wegzugsbesteuerung https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wegzugsbesteuerung or here (English): https://www.winheller.com/en/tax-law-tax-advisory/international-tax-planning/exit-taxation.html https://www.winheller.com/en/tax-law-tax-advisory/internatio...
- vram22 3y ago
  What's the reason for this?
  - rand846633 3y ago
    It’s an alternative approach to what the USA achieves with their worldwide taxation.
    - SR2Z 3y ago
      US global taxation applies only to income, though. This is a wealth tax.
  - gndk 3y ago
    It was initially introduced by the Nazis and mainly used to seize assets from jews before they were rounded up for the holocaust. So today, smart entrepreneurs do what smart jews did in the 1930s - leave Germany (and the EU), before it's too late. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Flight_Tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Flight_Tax
porkbeer 3y ago
India still needs to reign in its human rights abuses a LOT before being taken seriously. I certainly can't invest there in good concience.
- resolutebat 3y ago
  This is a business ranking, human rights don't factor into the equation. If anything it's easier to make money without pesky annoyances like labor rights or OSHA inspections in the way.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
- bigbacaloa 3y ago
  [dead]
bitcoinisback 3y ago
I lost any trust in that ranking after I saw Germany on place 4... Bureaucracy is extreme and some things that you could do in hours in other countries may take months or even years in Germany. Average tax rate is also second-highest among all OECD countries. Energy prices are extremely high (3x higher than in the US) and labour costs are high. There are also many other problems with Germany if you want to do business there.
- SwiftyBug 3y ago
  Labour costs are high is a bad thing? I see it as social cohesion, where people get paid less unfairly.
  - Traubenfuchs 3y ago
    The discussion here seems to focus on the owning/founding class sides perspective. This side, understandably, does not like high salaries and workers rights.
  - jajko 3y ago
    Not sure if you are serious with your comment but I'll bite - when you start a company, after going through all the hell of starting it and making it profitable (which is often multiyear draining effort which destroys families and health easily, risk of losing literally everything is very real), you want to give all those money to other people, who put just their expected 40h effort with maximum salary security, 5-6 weeks of paid holidays etc. This mindset is pervasive in Europe, and reason we are so much behind compared where we could be. Which can be fine, focus more on social aspect if thats your priority, but then good old greed kicks in and everybody wants those sweet money and benefits they bring, without necessary risks and downsides. World doesn't work that way and never will, its simple math at the core.
    - surgical_fire 3y ago
      > when you start a company, after going through all the hell of starting it and making it profitable (which is often multiyear draining effort which destroys families and health easily, risk of losing literally everything is very real), you want to give all those money to other people, who put just their expected 40h effort with maximum salary security, 5-6 weeks of paid holidays etc. "I took on some risks to build up my personal wealth, now I am entitled to be as exploitative as I can be. They only work what their contract dictates, fuck them". This is precisely why regulations and labor protections are important. People like you are the living proof that if allowed, workers would be bled dry.
coldtea 3y ago
Looks more like a ranking of "what neoliberals reforms have been made to make the place a hellscape for workers" than actual "improving business environments" if the latter means more jobs, an actually improved economy, less desperation, and so on.
- resolutebat 3y ago
  Desperation = low wages = more profit!
  - coldtea 3y ago
    You can have desperation and low wages without profit or any business boom - case in point Agerntina and Greece.
yieldcrv 3y ago
"most improved awards" are exclusively for special needs kids highly regarded, or not. depending on how you read that.
fakedang 3y ago
India so fast improving in business environment that 40% of those graduates under 25 are unemployed. https://www.cnbctv18.com/education/state-of-working-india-graduates-under-25-unable-to-find-jobs-labour-force-17840081.htm https://www.cnbctv18.com/education/state-of-working-india-gr...
- fakedang 3y ago
  Gotta love how ruling party fanatics have already downvoted this innocuous and factual comment.
kavouras 3y ago
I'm a Greek and this article saddens me. Greece is run by a populist government, one of the two parties that had be running Greece to it's demise. Kyriakos Mitsotakis is the first Greek politician in my opinion to understand modern media and how to manipulate them, appearing as the sensible choice to people who don't put any effort into researching politics. All that while we've had the government donating millions to friendly media, the Greek version of Watergate, with the goverment spying on politicians, journalists and others and two trains colliding because of state incompetence with many students dying. All that have not been investigated properly. Finally the average greek person has not been feeling any "fastest improving business environments" one of the reasons being that the sectors that thrive are not beneficial to the country.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

64 points by AlgoRitmo 3y ago

codingcodingboy 3y ago

Great to see Greece improving, meanwhile Italy is speedrunning its demise.

TheCapeGreek 3y ago
It's all relative. I speak to my Greek friends and family, mostly outside of tech, and the sentiment isn't yet as positive as the macro numbers in articles like this indicate. As a diaspora Greek, it's positive news, but it seems this all hasn't "trickled down" to citizens' day to day lives as much. It does give some hope for those who left for economic reasons, and there are even groups out there to encourage a return to restore the brain drain of the 2010s. That being said the elder population would probably be grumpy no matter how much things improved.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  > It's all relative. Exactly. Like, what was the outlook ten years ago? Possible exit from EU and euro, state bankruptcy, economic and political collapse. The stability and slow economic improvement might be a bad result for many countries, but for Greece it's IMHO a good result (for me, better than expected).
  - TheCapeGreek 3y ago
    Indeed. If you're still on X, or subscribe to newsletters, I can recommend The Greek Analyst[0]. He follows a lot of macro trends for Greece and makes an active effort to be a positive voice in the sea of Greek pessimism, including results like these "great result in relative context" pieces. [0] https://twitter.com/GreekAnalyst https://twitter.com/GreekAnalyst
- BillyTheKing 3y ago
  One of the things with Greeks (in Greece) really is that they're notoriously pessimistic and depressed, unlike what people usually associate with the country. I do think though that there's a bit of a new spirit though among the younger generation which is slightly less focused on 2k year old history and a bit more realistic in the way they approach the world. But maybe that's just wishful thinking on my end
  - TheCapeGreek 3y ago
    I don't think it's wishful thinking. I think newer generations in times like these will tend to rebel against the attitude of their parents in any direction that takes them. With grumpy old Greeks, that means the younger generation are calmer and maybe more positive too. Life's too short to be miserable. I find the ancient and Byzantine history fascinating myself. Naturally the liberation struggles are also important, but the very religious and closer-to-present history and culture don't interest me as much. I also always found it quite hypocritical of the older generation that they biased towards the more recent history and the Orthodox religious aspects, but then they'd sell you trinkets of the ancient world while quietly ignoring the pagan nature of it. IMO, one of the last big issues with Greek culturally and in terms of economic opportunity for young adults, is mandatory conscription. I won't be returning for anything more than a holiday unless I get a permanent exemption. Many Greeks tend to ignore the opportunity cost this impacts young men with. It's not just "a forced gap year" since you have to do it regardless of if you study or not. By having emigrated before the peak of the crises around 2015, I avoided both wasting a year on conscription and finished my studies sooner. Anecdotally I'm pretty sure taking that leap was the best thing I could've done, considering what I know of my pees right now (highly educated, but overworked and underpaid).
    - BillyTheKing 3y ago
      I think that's spot on - what annoys me with some older Greeks is a fairly consistent 'look at our amazing history' attitude, as if they're ancestors of Gods. But then the actual culture is deeply rooted in Greek orthodoxy, driven by entirely different values, mostly pretty conservative. In reality, many older Greeks know relatively little about their own ancient history, or they focus on very specific aspects of it. Even though it's actually so colorful and full of human conflict and complexities. I believe it's important for the country to look beyond that history. Not saying one shouldn't be inspired by it, almost everyone in the West is somewhat inspired by it anyway. This is a piece of humanity that played out on the same geographical area as modern-day Greece with a somewhat similar language, but it's long gone. And I totally agree regarding conscription - if it were some sort of useful exercise for 6 months or so, one could probably make sense of it, but as it stands currently, it's a total waste of time.
The_Colonel 3y ago
I remember being very negative about the Greek's long term outlook ~10 years ago. I mean, it was obvious that there will be an economic downturn for many years in basically all scenarios, but I was very worried about the political uproar, turn to populism and authoritarianism (which would further worsen the economic woes). IIRC there was an election in ~2015 which Syriza won, back then pretty radical in its anti-austerity campaign. But after they won, they made a turnaround and more or less went along with the austerity.
- 4gotunameagain 3y ago
  The problem of Greece is that due to decades of nepotism and corruption, there is no real political hope. The ruling party is one of the two that has brought Greece to where it is now, and the prime minister comes from a family with a long tradition in politics and power thirst. His best man is the biggest gangster in Greece, Marinakis. They found a ship of his containing 2 TONS! of heroin, and nothing happened. Because the Mitsotakis family controls the court system in Greece. https://newrepublic.com/article/159252/noor-one-vampire-ship-heroin-turkey-greece-corruption-scandal https://newrepublic.com/article/159252/noor-one-vampire-ship...
  - georgeplusplus 3y ago
    Not to make an excuse, but tell me a country that isn't like that. For all the pomp and circumstance that democracy provides, it all feels like it boils down to tribalism where oligarchs rule and control the tides. Sure we all control our individual boats but the tide is what controls the sea.
    - blackhawkC17 3y ago
      There are many countries not run by an oligarchy. Sure every nation has an elite, but it’s a stretch to say that Germany, Sweden, Denmark, USA, and many other countries have an oligarchic system similar to how it is in Russia, Uzbekistan, and Kazakhstan.

huytersd 3y ago

Argentina?

resolutebat 3y ago
Last year the currency lost 75% of its value, this year it's only down 10% so far (in Q1), so perhaps that counts as improvement.
derelicta 3y ago
Some neoconservative politician roleplaying as an anarchist reached the country's top office. He's privatising everything on a speedrun, weakening all labour regulations, waging an economic war against China, the country's top economic partner, and promised he would forfeit the country's currency to the Americans by switching to dollars. So ig for foreign investors its now or never to plunder what's left of Argentina.
- jdmoreira 3y ago
  He was democratically elected with this agenda. Maybe the people there were tired of the same old crony socialist disaster and rampant inflation plus accelerated loss of quality of live. I don't know, maybe what a country with great demographics and decent territory needs in this situation is a healthy dose of western/american capitalism. I would also much rather be allied to US agendas than to Chinese agendas ANY DAY.
  - zem 3y ago
    trump and modi were democratically elected too, so by itself that's no real measure of fitness for office.
    - soco 3y ago
      Aaaand the moment for the Godwin's law to kick in has arrived! And it's not even wrong in this context, I'd say.
  - 3y ago

BillyTheKing 3y ago

I'm half Greek, so obviously a little bias. But would love to see a more thriving tech scene in Athens. It's a cool city, with great night-life, great restaurants, and stunning places nearby, not yet super gentrified and obviously also has some archaeological sites. But it's not just 2000 years old history (yes, it's partly also pretty run-down, bureaucracy is a night-mare, etc.) Generally speaking, it's usually sunny all year around, winters are mild, summers are hot, but one can spend those on an Aegean island..

pjmlp 3y ago
Speaking of bias, I would rather see that as well in Thessaloniki. And better remote working conditions could be a way to diversify the islands economy beyond Summers.
- TheCapeGreek 3y ago
  There is always the strategy of finding non-Greek companies to work remotely for, who will have a better work culture and remote ethic. For the economic argument, you'd still be bringing money into the country and stimulating the economy (and paying taxes), so it's not all doom and gloom that you aren't working for a Greek company to make Greece better.
  - pyvpx 3y ago
    except there is absolutely zero anything on permanent establishment rules. The Greek tax authorities could write one memo saying “hiring a director in Greece does not trigger permanent establishment” and that digital nomad visa program would really pop off. alas…nothing
    - TheCapeGreek 3y ago
      I don't condone nonlegal actions, but do they really check your source of income? Usually with such sorts of tax authorities I'd imagine they'd only pay attention if they notice large incomes or many people citing the same contracting source. IANAFA and not clued up on Greek tax myself.

tenlp 3y ago

After all, Argentina has sold a lot of state-owned enterprises this year. Having so much one-time income will definitely make the economy look better. As for the future, who cares? https://www.worldoil.com/news/2024/2/8/argentina-plans-sweeping-oil-and-gas-asset-sale-to-focus-on-shale-production/ https://www.worldoil.com/news/2024/2/8/argentina-plans-sweep...

nikanj 3y ago
They can just nationalize it in the next election cycle.
pilaf 3y ago
> After all, Argentina has sold a lot of state-owned enterprises this year Which ones? AFAIK government has stated intent to sell around 40 state-owned companies (expressed in a massive bill that got rejected by congress), but I don't know that any have been sold yet. Also YPF (state-owned oil company), the company your linked article is talking about, was removed from the list of companies to be sold even before the new legislation got rejected [1] (your article mentions this fact too). But also it seems your linked article is mainly talking about YPF selling assets, not the company being sold. 1: https://www.eleconomista.com.mx/empresas/Ley-omnibus-Milei-saca-a-YPF-de-lista-de-privatizaciones-20240122-0128.html https://www.eleconomista.com.mx/empresas/Ley-omnibus-Milei-s...

hnhg 3y ago

I am surprised to see Germany so high. Germany is a hostile place to start a company, especially if you are not German, not least because there is the issue of a very harsh and inflexible exit tax. Should you decide to leave Germany, even temporarily, you will be faced with a tax of around 30% of the current valuation of your worldwide holdings in companies. The rules for this became even harsher in 2021. I have obviously simplified everything for the sake of clarity but currently lawyers in Germany are advising people there to leave Germany before starting a company. Most of the information on this is in German but people should be aware of this before considering Germany as a place to start a company. You can read more here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wegzugsbesteuerung https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wegzugsbesteuerung or here (English): https://www.winheller.com/en/tax-law-tax-advisory/international-tax-planning/exit-taxation.html https://www.winheller.com/en/tax-law-tax-advisory/internatio...

vram22 3y ago
What's the reason for this?
- rand846633 3y ago
  It’s an alternative approach to what the USA achieves with their worldwide taxation.
  - SR2Z 3y ago
    US global taxation applies only to income, though. This is a wealth tax.
- gndk 3y ago
  It was initially introduced by the Nazis and mainly used to seize assets from jews before they were rounded up for the holocaust. So today, smart entrepreneurs do what smart jews did in the 1930s - leave Germany (and the EU), before it's too late. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Flight_Tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Flight_Tax

porkbeer 3y ago

India still needs to reign in its human rights abuses a LOT before being taken seriously. I certainly can't invest there in good concience.

resolutebat 3y ago
This is a business ranking, human rights don't factor into the equation. If anything it's easier to make money without pesky annoyances like labor rights or OSHA inspections in the way.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bigbacaloa 3y ago
[dead]

bitcoinisback 3y ago

I lost any trust in that ranking after I saw Germany on place 4... Bureaucracy is extreme and some things that you could do in hours in other countries may take months or even years in Germany. Average tax rate is also second-highest among all OECD countries. Energy prices are extremely high (3x higher than in the US) and labour costs are high. There are also many other problems with Germany if you want to do business there.

SwiftyBug 3y ago
Labour costs are high is a bad thing? I see it as social cohesion, where people get paid less unfairly.
- Traubenfuchs 3y ago
  The discussion here seems to focus on the owning/founding class sides perspective. This side, understandably, does not like high salaries and workers rights.
- jajko 3y ago
  Not sure if you are serious with your comment but I'll bite - when you start a company, after going through all the hell of starting it and making it profitable (which is often multiyear draining effort which destroys families and health easily, risk of losing literally everything is very real), you want to give all those money to other people, who put just their expected 40h effort with maximum salary security, 5-6 weeks of paid holidays etc. This mindset is pervasive in Europe, and reason we are so much behind compared where we could be. Which can be fine, focus more on social aspect if thats your priority, but then good old greed kicks in and everybody wants those sweet money and benefits they bring, without necessary risks and downsides. World doesn't work that way and never will, its simple math at the core.
  - surgical_fire 3y ago
    > when you start a company, after going through all the hell of starting it and making it profitable (which is often multiyear draining effort which destroys families and health easily, risk of losing literally everything is very real), you want to give all those money to other people, who put just their expected 40h effort with maximum salary security, 5-6 weeks of paid holidays etc. "I took on some risks to build up my personal wealth, now I am entitled to be as exploitative as I can be. They only work what their contract dictates, fuck them". This is precisely why regulations and labor protections are important. People like you are the living proof that if allowed, workers would be bled dry.

coldtea 3y ago

Looks more like a ranking of "what neoliberals reforms have been made to make the place a hellscape for workers" than actual "improving business environments" if the latter means more jobs, an actually improved economy, less desperation, and so on.

resolutebat 3y ago
Desperation = low wages = more profit!
- coldtea 3y ago
  You can have desperation and low wages without profit or any business boom - case in point Agerntina and Greece.

yieldcrv 3y ago

"most improved awards" are exclusively for special needs kids highly regarded, or not. depending on how you read that.

fakedang 3y ago

India so fast improving in business environment that 40% of those graduates under 25 are unemployed. https://www.cnbctv18.com/education/state-of-working-india-graduates-under-25-unable-to-find-jobs-labour-force-17840081.htm https://www.cnbctv18.com/education/state-of-working-india-gr...

fakedang 3y ago
Gotta love how ruling party fanatics have already downvoted this innocuous and factual comment.

kavouras 3y ago

I'm a Greek and this article saddens me. Greece is run by a populist government, one of the two parties that had be running Greece to it's demise. Kyriakos Mitsotakis is the first Greek politician in my opinion to understand modern media and how to manipulate them, appearing as the sensible choice to people who don't put any effort into researching politics. All that while we've had the government donating millions to friendly media, the Greek version of Watergate, with the goverment spying on politicians, journalists and others and two trains colliding because of state incompetence with many students dying. All that have not been investigated properly. Finally the average greek person has not been feeling any "fastest improving business environments" one of the reasons being that the sectors that thrive are not beneficial to the country.

deleted 3y ago

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