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At least in Japan, not important. Japanese is written vertically in novels, comics, newspapers and some writing in school, but almost everything else is writte

At least in Japan, not important. Japanese is written vertically in novels, comics, newspapers and some writing in school, but almost everything else is written horizontally. Textbooks, manuals, letters from the bank, websites. Restaurant menus often go vertical for a more Japanese feel or horizontal for a more western one. That said, I think it's great to see this support added to webkit. A diverse web is good for everyone.

ivanjermakov 3y ago
I suspect most of modern Japanese media is horizontal exactly because of a low support for vertical in digital. Multilingual applications and systems rarely favor i18n improvements for a smaller groups of users.
- csande17 3y ago
  Japan has a pretty strong local tech industry. Microsoft Word needed to add all kinds of features, including both vertical writing and weirder stuff like a dictionary of seasonal greeting phrases to use in formal correspondence (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/archive/blogs/office_global_experience/special-east-asian-features-in-office-2010#japanese-greetings https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/archive/blogs/office_globa...) to compete successfully with Japanese word processors. So I suspect the causality is the other way around; there wasn't much demand for vertical form controls for the same reason you don't write emails in cursive.
fomine3 3y ago
There's more usage of vertically written Japanese than you listed. Some signboards, some formal letters, many paperbooks (and ebook version), vast majority of non-technical magazines are still vertically written. Fortunately, for forms, I haven't seen any vertically written forms except school work.
- dfee 3y ago
  When drafting a formal letter, does the author write it horizontally and present it vertically? Or, is the author expected to have skill at writing a 90 degree rotated character? Or, is the character not rotated, but just written in columns not rows?
  - amenhotep 3y ago
    > Or, is the character not rotated, but just written in columns not rows? This one. Think about it - they don't expect the reader to tilt his head 90 degrees to read it :)
    - dfee 3y ago
      Formality is often tied to skill. Writing at a 90 degree angle would require more skill, the ability more rare. Calligraphy, for example, conveys no extra information but is of higher stature.
0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
How many characters tall is a Japanese book? English paperbacks seem to be similarly sized on the number of characters/words wide. Interface guidelines put an optional number of characters on a screen somewhere between 60-80. Books being taller than they are wide seem like it would stretch the limit to something harder to track for vertical writing.
- franciscop 3y ago
  Note that Japanese characters are much bigger (+ meaning-packed) than Latin characters, so it's also harder to lose track of which line you are at IMHO.
- Macha 3y ago
  Like 20ish seems common in my experience learning. But you have to consider that most words are 1-3 characters before comparing that to English line lengths.

ivanjermakov 3y ago

I suspect most of modern Japanese media is horizontal exactly because of a low support for vertical in digital. Multilingual applications and systems rarely favor i18n improvements for a smaller groups of users.

csande17 3y ago
Japan has a pretty strong local tech industry. Microsoft Word needed to add all kinds of features, including both vertical writing and weirder stuff like a dictionary of seasonal greeting phrases to use in formal correspondence (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/archive/blogs/office_global_experience/special-east-asian-features-in-office-2010#japanese-greetings https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/archive/blogs/office_globa...) to compete successfully with Japanese word processors. So I suspect the causality is the other way around; there wasn't much demand for vertical form controls for the same reason you don't write emails in cursive.

fomine3 3y ago

There's more usage of vertically written Japanese than you listed. Some signboards, some formal letters, many paperbooks (and ebook version), vast majority of non-technical magazines are still vertically written. Fortunately, for forms, I haven't seen any vertically written forms except school work.

dfee 3y ago
When drafting a formal letter, does the author write it horizontally and present it vertically? Or, is the author expected to have skill at writing a 90 degree rotated character? Or, is the character not rotated, but just written in columns not rows?
- amenhotep 3y ago
  > Or, is the character not rotated, but just written in columns not rows? This one. Think about it - they don't expect the reader to tilt his head 90 degrees to read it :)
  - dfee 3y ago
    Formality is often tied to skill. Writing at a 90 degree angle would require more skill, the ability more rare. Calligraphy, for example, conveys no extra information but is of higher stature.

0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago

How many characters tall is a Japanese book? English paperbacks seem to be similarly sized on the number of characters/words wide. Interface guidelines put an optional number of characters on a screen somewhere between 60-80. Books being taller than they are wide seem like it would stretch the limit to something harder to track for vertical writing.

franciscop 3y ago
Note that Japanese characters are much bigger (+ meaning-packed) than Latin characters, so it's also harder to lose track of which line you are at IMHO.
Macha 3y ago
Like 20ish seems common in my experience learning. But you have to consider that most words are 1-3 characters before comparing that to English line lengths.