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China and India are happy to trade with Russia. That is a smaller bloc than the EU + US, but there is a reasonable argument [0] that the difference is not that

by roenxi 3y ago

China and India are happy to trade with Russia. That is a smaller bloc than the EU + US, but there is a reasonable argument [0] that the difference is not that big. This whole fiasco seems to have been quite damaging to the US's image; it is just drawing attention to the fact that there is an acceptable alternative. If the US wants to maintain a dominant position it should have been working to make this bloc less likely to form, not working hard to weld the different components together. If they manage to build a bloc that has worlds biggest democracy, worlds biggest manufacturing powerhouse and a big oil export that is sealed off from the US financial system then that will be quite difficult to compete with. [0] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/national-gdp-wb?tab=chart&country=CHN~USA~IND~OWID_EU27~GBR~RUS https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/national-gdp-wb?tab=chart...

mc32 3y ago
The West is risking the emergence of a new Second World n the form of the BRICS+. Our policies plus the policies of the IMF and other international agencies that exert pressure will drive them to it. Greece almost Grexited due to Germany's arm-twisting. Give it time, if the pressure keeps mounting on these countries that don't align 100% with western policies, for good reasons or not, they will form an alternative. Of course, they may have too much infighting to be successful as well. So it remains to be seen.
- maximinus_thrax 3y ago
  > The West is risking the emergence of a new Second World n the form of the BRICS+. Highly skeptical of this ever happening. BRICS is a joke and the countries involved have 0 cohesion aside from some 'America bad' rhetoric, which is not enough to create an actual productive alliance. You should check out their summits where they meet up to disagree on pretty much everything. The greatest threat IMO is from the inside. The backlash caused by income inequality has been channeled into a far-right revival in the west, which may cause existing functioning institutions to basically stop functioning. At that point, it doesn't matter whether the anti-West factions are actually allied or not (they will likely not be, don't think for a second that China/Russia don't have their points of contention. By the end of the decade, Russia will end up being China's puppet and the Russians will not be very happy).
simonblack 3y ago
China plus India plus Russia is about 3 and a bit billion people: just three countries make up 40% of the Earth's population. The whole of the West combined is roughly half that or less. The West is trying to turn itself into a small backwater of the World. That won't end well.

by roenxi 3y ago

mc32 3y ago

The West is risking the emergence of a new Second World n the form of the BRICS+. Our policies plus the policies of the IMF and other international agencies that exert pressure will drive them to it. Greece almost Grexited due to Germany's arm-twisting. Give it time, if the pressure keeps mounting on these countries that don't align 100% with western policies, for good reasons or not, they will form an alternative. Of course, they may have too much infighting to be successful as well. So it remains to be seen.

maximinus_thrax 3y ago
> The West is risking the emergence of a new Second World n the form of the BRICS+. Highly skeptical of this ever happening. BRICS is a joke and the countries involved have 0 cohesion aside from some 'America bad' rhetoric, which is not enough to create an actual productive alliance. You should check out their summits where they meet up to disagree on pretty much everything. The greatest threat IMO is from the inside. The backlash caused by income inequality has been channeled into a far-right revival in the west, which may cause existing functioning institutions to basically stop functioning. At that point, it doesn't matter whether the anti-West factions are actually allied or not (they will likely not be, don't think for a second that China/Russia don't have their points of contention. By the end of the decade, Russia will end up being China's puppet and the Russians will not be very happy).

simonblack 3y ago

China plus India plus Russia is about 3 and a bit billion people: just three countries make up 40% of the Earth's population. The whole of the West combined is roughly half that or less. The West is trying to turn itself into a small backwater of the World. That won't end well.