4 ms·

Weed does miracles for people truly suffering from insomnia. (At least for me) However, there is still a risk/reward equation. If I take too much, there’s a no

by cj 3y ago

Weed does miracles for people truly suffering from insomnia. (At least for me) However, there is still a risk/reward equation. If I take too much, there’s a noticeable difference in next day cognitive performance. Like anything, weed is only an effective medical tool when used in extreme moderation. The same as diphenhydramine, ambien, etc.

starttoaster 3y ago
Agree about the moderation. The downside of the edibles is that after a month or two, I start needing more. When this happens I abstain and go back to my prescribed medicine for 2-3 weeks, and then continue back with the dosage that I allow myself. It's a bit of a cycle to watch over and maintain, but at least for me, the miracle of decent sleep far outweighs the cons.
- olyjohn 3y ago
  This happens to me with my prescription meds too. Always have to go back to the doctor and get a higher dose. Then the higher dose causes side effects, it sucks.
- 2devnull 3y ago
  What sort of edibles and how much does such a regimen cost? I assume it’s not covered by insurance? Is your prescribed med one of the z drugs (ambien, lunesta, sonata)?
  - starttoaster 3y ago
    I take an edible that advertises it came from an Indica strain, where I take it in a dose of 20mg of THC and 10mg CBN. It costs me around $150/month, which I suppose it depends if you consider that a large amount of money. It's not as cheap (from the perspective of my wallet) as my prescribed medicine, granted, but works much better. And correct, I just buy it at a local dispensary, no prescription. My prescription drug is Trazodone, which so far has worked better than nothing. But it's a bit more involved of a process of winding down, for me. I have to make a conscious decision to stop everything I'm doing with it, and concentrate on just getting sleepy. Which is both maddening and a horrible waste of my waking time, in my opinion. And then every moment that I lay in bed, I have to make sure my mind is calm, or it's like I instinctively fight the drug and end up awake. On the edibles I just AM calm, I don't have to try to be anything.
    - sigseg1v 3y ago
      >My prescription drug is Trazodone, which so far has worked better than nothing Someone I know tried Trazodone but it had similar problems as well as other minor side effects. They switched to Quetiapine in extremely low dose and it worked great, however they are concerned to use it long term as it's not the main reason that drug is usually prescribed. Out of curiosity, I am wondering if you have tried that and can compare it to the current edible that is working for you?
      - starttoaster 3y ago
        I have not tried it, sorry. Unfortunately I only started trying to do something about my sleep issues recently, and so Trazadone was the first thing my doctor prescribed so far. Previously I just worked around them by getting night shift jobs and blaming that for my lack of sleep, heh.
      - 2devnull 3y ago
        Quetiapine isn’t typically on the menu for mere insomnia. At least that’s what I’ve been told when I’ve asked various doctors about it. Trazodone acts an antihistamine at lower dosages as I’ve been told. My experience is that it’s much more than that, and that modern medical science is woefully unaware of what they’re doing when prescribing such drugs.
    - 2devnull 3y ago
      Thank you very much for the data point. I don’t think $150 is very much given the impact of chronic insomnia. And most of that is going to back into taxes anyway, so it’s socially beneficial. Have you worried about dependence— an issue with any sleep med? I’ve been told daily use of edibles isn’t viable without taking days off to reset tolerance. I don’t think 20mg is very much, so maybe keeping the dose moderate and sub-recreational is key.
mc32 3y ago
I think this is a balanced approach --for just about any addictive drug with undesirable side effects from overconsumption. Unfortunately, we tend to be in the extremes rather than the middle. We've either criminalized it, or have it wide open. Maybe after a decade or so of studies that are enabled by the legalization, we can get better guidance on usage and control.
olyjohn 3y ago
THC interferes with the REM cycle. This is why when heavy smokers quit, they have crazy dreams for a few weeks. That's probably why you feel so groggy the next day when you take higher doses. You were asleep, but not getting good sleep. Pot helps you fall asleep, but it does not help you get good quality sleep.
- MSFT_Edging 3y ago
  I'm sure to someone getting little to no sleep, not-great sleep would sound like a huge improvement.
  - galleywest200 3y ago
    Correct. I understand it is "less good", but as someone with Restless Leg Syndrome THC is the only "medication" I have found that stops the electric feelings in my legs almost immediately. Luckily RLS does not flare up every day any more, and my ADHD medication I take right before bed helps a ton. I recall the worst ever period I had of RLS was 36 hours of no sleep when I finally just blew a fuse over the issue.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Thanks for this, that was exactly my experience, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39786167 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39786167. In the long run I think THC made my insomnia issues worse, or at least prevented me from addressing the root cause sooner.
  - shaneofalltrad 3y ago
    I would bet that was strain related as mentioned in this thread, it took me going through 30 strain’s before realizing this for myself.
- Perenti 3y ago
  Before I started on MMJ I slept in 2 hour shifts, every 12 hours or so, due to neuropathic pain. Now I sleep for 8 hours - once I get to sleep. It seems that daily use does make it a bit harder to fall asleep (racing mind?) but at least I'm not just getting the bare minimum anymore. Note that taking CBD reduces the negative effects of THC use, at the cost of less stoned. If using for medical reasons that's not a big deal. If recreational use it probably is.
yieldcrv 3y ago
> Like anything, weed is only an effective medical tool when used in extreme moderation. and I just wish it would be subject to the same per ailment clinical trials that other substances are. so that for each specific thing people claim it helps with, there are specific side effects listed and studied. zero of these state level efforts have that and we are still stuck in the medieval age of anecdotes, its embarrassing
- annoyingnoob 3y ago
  We are missing the science due to prohibition. This is the kind of change that is needed to foster more science.
  - yieldcrv 3y ago
    I'm aware The anecdotes masquerading as enlightenment are frustrating.
    - starttoaster 3y ago
      Do you get the impression that anyone here is masquerading anecdotes in this conversation, or are you speaking generally? Because I disclaimed my whole parent comment with, "I can only speak anecdotally..."
      - yieldcrv 3y ago
        Its not a pejorative statement about the people here Its a pejorative statement about how thats all we have to work with
AbstractH24 3y ago
Reading this, I’m wrestling with why I can conform to “prescribed” dosages of potentially abusable pharmaceutical like stimulants, but I find it so hard to just have a little weed I force my wife to keep hers in a safe and opt for sleeping pills for my insomnia. Only answer I can come up with is societal norms. Taking more prescriptions than prescribed makes you an addict, smoking more weed is just normal.

by cj 3y ago

starttoaster 3y ago

Agree about the moderation. The downside of the edibles is that after a month or two, I start needing more. When this happens I abstain and go back to my prescribed medicine for 2-3 weeks, and then continue back with the dosage that I allow myself. It's a bit of a cycle to watch over and maintain, but at least for me, the miracle of decent sleep far outweighs the cons.

olyjohn 3y ago
This happens to me with my prescription meds too. Always have to go back to the doctor and get a higher dose. Then the higher dose causes side effects, it sucks.
2devnull 3y ago
What sort of edibles and how much does such a regimen cost? I assume it’s not covered by insurance? Is your prescribed med one of the z drugs (ambien, lunesta, sonata)?
- starttoaster 3y ago
  I take an edible that advertises it came from an Indica strain, where I take it in a dose of 20mg of THC and 10mg CBN. It costs me around $150/month, which I suppose it depends if you consider that a large amount of money. It's not as cheap (from the perspective of my wallet) as my prescribed medicine, granted, but works much better. And correct, I just buy it at a local dispensary, no prescription. My prescription drug is Trazodone, which so far has worked better than nothing. But it's a bit more involved of a process of winding down, for me. I have to make a conscious decision to stop everything I'm doing with it, and concentrate on just getting sleepy. Which is both maddening and a horrible waste of my waking time, in my opinion. And then every moment that I lay in bed, I have to make sure my mind is calm, or it's like I instinctively fight the drug and end up awake. On the edibles I just AM calm, I don't have to try to be anything.
  - sigseg1v 3y ago
    >My prescription drug is Trazodone, which so far has worked better than nothing Someone I know tried Trazodone but it had similar problems as well as other minor side effects. They switched to Quetiapine in extremely low dose and it worked great, however they are concerned to use it long term as it's not the main reason that drug is usually prescribed. Out of curiosity, I am wondering if you have tried that and can compare it to the current edible that is working for you?
    - starttoaster 3y ago
      I have not tried it, sorry. Unfortunately I only started trying to do something about my sleep issues recently, and so Trazadone was the first thing my doctor prescribed so far. Previously I just worked around them by getting night shift jobs and blaming that for my lack of sleep, heh.
    - 2devnull 3y ago
      Quetiapine isn’t typically on the menu for mere insomnia. At least that’s what I’ve been told when I’ve asked various doctors about it. Trazodone acts an antihistamine at lower dosages as I’ve been told. My experience is that it’s much more than that, and that modern medical science is woefully unaware of what they’re doing when prescribing such drugs.
  - 2devnull 3y ago
    Thank you very much for the data point. I don’t think $150 is very much given the impact of chronic insomnia. And most of that is going to back into taxes anyway, so it’s socially beneficial. Have you worried about dependence— an issue with any sleep med? I’ve been told daily use of edibles isn’t viable without taking days off to reset tolerance. I don’t think 20mg is very much, so maybe keeping the dose moderate and sub-recreational is key.

mc32 3y ago

I think this is a balanced approach --for just about any addictive drug with undesirable side effects from overconsumption. Unfortunately, we tend to be in the extremes rather than the middle. We've either criminalized it, or have it wide open. Maybe after a decade or so of studies that are enabled by the legalization, we can get better guidance on usage and control.

olyjohn 3y ago

THC interferes with the REM cycle. This is why when heavy smokers quit, they have crazy dreams for a few weeks. That's probably why you feel so groggy the next day when you take higher doses. You were asleep, but not getting good sleep. Pot helps you fall asleep, but it does not help you get good quality sleep.

MSFT_Edging 3y ago
I'm sure to someone getting little to no sleep, not-great sleep would sound like a huge improvement.
- galleywest200 3y ago
  Correct. I understand it is "less good", but as someone with Restless Leg Syndrome THC is the only "medication" I have found that stops the electric feelings in my legs almost immediately. Luckily RLS does not flare up every day any more, and my ADHD medication I take right before bed helps a ton. I recall the worst ever period I had of RLS was 36 hours of no sleep when I finally just blew a fuse over the issue.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Thanks for this, that was exactly my experience, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39786167 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39786167. In the long run I think THC made my insomnia issues worse, or at least prevented me from addressing the root cause sooner.
- shaneofalltrad 3y ago
  I would bet that was strain related as mentioned in this thread, it took me going through 30 strain’s before realizing this for myself.
Perenti 3y ago
Before I started on MMJ I slept in 2 hour shifts, every 12 hours or so, due to neuropathic pain. Now I sleep for 8 hours - once I get to sleep. It seems that daily use does make it a bit harder to fall asleep (racing mind?) but at least I'm not just getting the bare minimum anymore. Note that taking CBD reduces the negative effects of THC use, at the cost of less stoned. If using for medical reasons that's not a big deal. If recreational use it probably is.

yieldcrv 3y ago

> Like anything, weed is only an effective medical tool when used in extreme moderation. and I just wish it would be subject to the same per ailment clinical trials that other substances are. so that for each specific thing people claim it helps with, there are specific side effects listed and studied. zero of these state level efforts have that and we are still stuck in the medieval age of anecdotes, its embarrassing

annoyingnoob 3y ago
We are missing the science due to prohibition. This is the kind of change that is needed to foster more science.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  I'm aware The anecdotes masquerading as enlightenment are frustrating.
  - starttoaster 3y ago
    Do you get the impression that anyone here is masquerading anecdotes in this conversation, or are you speaking generally? Because I disclaimed my whole parent comment with, "I can only speak anecdotally..."
    - yieldcrv 3y ago
      Its not a pejorative statement about the people here Its a pejorative statement about how thats all we have to work with

AbstractH24 3y ago

Reading this, I’m wrestling with why I can conform to “prescribed” dosages of potentially abusable pharmaceutical like stimulants, but I find it so hard to just have a little weed I force my wife to keep hers in a safe and opt for sleeping pills for my insomnia. Only answer I can come up with is societal norms. Taking more prescriptions than prescribed makes you an addict, smoking more weed is just normal.