5 ms·

And each one of those has been found to fluff salary data.

mattraibert 14y ago
Could you please provide some evidence? A glance at your comment history reveals a pattern: anecdotal examples of wildly low salaries ($40k-$50k), and unsubstantiated claims that every possible source of salary data (aside from your examples) is inaccurate. Just a couple of examples: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3978058 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3978058 >That's worse than the OP's link. >If any company paid that much there'd be a line at the front door every single day of people wanting to be hired. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3953590 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3953590 >You're "facts" are far from that. >The developers we have onsite with the customer (Department of Defense with Top Secret clearances) are paid roughly $40-50K/yr USD. >If there were companies that actually paid the salaries you're quoting there would be a line of people at the front door every morning wanting to get hired. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3959410 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3959410 >Your reference is like citing Ms Cleo - pathetic actually. >If companies actually paid those amounts listed there'd be a line of applicants at the front door every single morning wanted the job. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3344467 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3344467 >If there were developer jobs paying that much, there'd be a line of people at the front door every day wanting to get hired. >Quality people are easy to find, a quality company is not.
- dsolomon 14y ago
  Yup - I hate the HR hype (you're HR right) that "OMG LOOK @ WUT WE PAYZ!!!!111". I've spent the past 10+ years as a defense contractor working cleared programs. I've seen all sorts of sleazy work done by HR and management to push salaries down. - Justify your position - done 2x yearly - Switching you from one project to another that has less benefits associated with it (this means the company doesn't have to pay their portion, so it's a larger profit margin for them) - Not reimbursing for directed travel - Full Time Employee required to pay for hardware/software to do the job - Assigned a primary health provider closest to work so as to minimize out of office time; or assigned one on the other side of the state; in this scenario it would have meant a 2+ hour drive one way - Bait and switch with employee referrals (suddenly not qualified for the bonus because a recruiting subcontractor had contacted them 2 years ago - no documented contact, but let the employee prove otherwise) But who do you think fills out those salary surveys - HR/management. Do you believe that they'd be honest. They have a vested interest in stacking something like Glassdoor - prospective clients use it. Clients want a workforce that's "happy". They'll pay more for it because the perception is better output and low turnover. So the company has ensured a good payday for themselves, low employee expenditure rate, and the work is still being done. Of course with one project I worked the turnover was a killer (140%+ at the 30 month mark, 6 program managers, 5 deputy program managers, least amount of time someone was here before they said f*ck it was 22 hrs) - but profit is profit. So keep believing in your vision that companies, managers, and HR speak the truth.
  - sciurus 14y ago
    Have you even tried to get out of the defense contracting world and work at one of the non-shitty jobs that commenters here keep futilely trying to tell you exist?
    - grumps 14y ago
      That can be exteremly hard, if you're not writing code. Not all the roles and responsibilities directly translate to the world of private industry. For example a Systems Engineer in defense is loosely a product manager/ architect. However, it's impossible to get show all the responsibilities translate. Try explaining that to a recruiter... It tried for months.
      - vonmoltke 14y ago
        I was in that boat for ~2 years (got out of it a little over a month ago). My problem was reduced in some respects, while amplified in others, because on my program systems engineers were developing signal processing algorithms[0] and implementing them in real-time signal processing software, in C. This caused all sorts of partial mismatches and misunderstandings, but ultimately the software piece got me out of there. [edit] I would like to add that not being able to discuss what I did in meaningful detail was the most serious hindrance to my job search. [0] This bit caused its own problems with a few companies, who saw "algorithms" and thought something else.
        grumps 14y ago
        Yea, I'm pretty much a pure systems engineer. I'm working on teaching my self some code but it's not going to get me out of there. It's rough... I'm close though. Hopefully in a few weeks life will change.
      - dsolomon 14y ago
        Seriously. Try explaining PfM, UML, DoDAF or FEAF, to a recruiter. Or Troux, Primavera, System Architect, or DOORS. Or why ISSEP/ISSAP can be critical. All while the recruiter is trying to do their job asking "Do you know C hashtag?" ... LOLWUT.
notJim 14y ago
Yeah, I looked at the PDF, and it's in-line with what I and my peers are paid. I am an engineer.

Could you please provide some evidence? A glance at your comment history reveals a pattern: anecdotal examples of wildly low salaries ($40k-$50k), and unsubstantiated claims that every possible source of salary data (aside from your examples) is inaccurate. Just a couple of examples: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3978058 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3978058 >That's worse than the OP's link. >If any company paid that much there'd be a line at the front door every single day of people wanting to be hired. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3953590 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3953590 >You're "facts" are far from that. >The developers we have onsite with the customer (Department of Defense with Top Secret clearances) are paid roughly $40-50K/yr USD. >If there were companies that actually paid the salaries you're quoting there would be a line of people at the front door every morning wanting to get hired. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3959410 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3959410 >Your reference is like citing Ms Cleo - pathetic actually. >If companies actually paid those amounts listed there'd be a line of applicants at the front door every single morning wanted the job. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3344467 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3344467 >If there were developer jobs paying that much, there'd be a line of people at the front door every day wanting to get hired. >Quality people are easy to find, a quality company is not.

dsolomon 14y ago
Yup - I hate the HR hype (you're HR right) that "OMG LOOK @ WUT WE PAYZ!!!!111". I've spent the past 10+ years as a defense contractor working cleared programs. I've seen all sorts of sleazy work done by HR and management to push salaries down. - Justify your position - done 2x yearly - Switching you from one project to another that has less benefits associated with it (this means the company doesn't have to pay their portion, so it's a larger profit margin for them) - Not reimbursing for directed travel - Full Time Employee required to pay for hardware/software to do the job - Assigned a primary health provider closest to work so as to minimize out of office time; or assigned one on the other side of the state; in this scenario it would have meant a 2+ hour drive one way - Bait and switch with employee referrals (suddenly not qualified for the bonus because a recruiting subcontractor had contacted them 2 years ago - no documented contact, but let the employee prove otherwise) But who do you think fills out those salary surveys - HR/management. Do you believe that they'd be honest. They have a vested interest in stacking something like Glassdoor - prospective clients use it. Clients want a workforce that's "happy". They'll pay more for it because the perception is better output and low turnover. So the company has ensured a good payday for themselves, low employee expenditure rate, and the work is still being done. Of course with one project I worked the turnover was a killer (140%+ at the 30 month mark, 6 program managers, 5 deputy program managers, least amount of time someone was here before they said f*ck it was 22 hrs) - but profit is profit. So keep believing in your vision that companies, managers, and HR speak the truth.
- sciurus 14y ago
  Have you even tried to get out of the defense contracting world and work at one of the non-shitty jobs that commenters here keep futilely trying to tell you exist?
  - grumps 14y ago
    That can be exteremly hard, if you're not writing code. Not all the roles and responsibilities directly translate to the world of private industry. For example a Systems Engineer in defense is loosely a product manager/ architect. However, it's impossible to get show all the responsibilities translate. Try explaining that to a recruiter... It tried for months.
    - vonmoltke 14y ago
      I was in that boat for ~2 years (got out of it a little over a month ago). My problem was reduced in some respects, while amplified in others, because on my program systems engineers were developing signal processing algorithms[0] and implementing them in real-time signal processing software, in C. This caused all sorts of partial mismatches and misunderstandings, but ultimately the software piece got me out of there. [edit] I would like to add that not being able to discuss what I did in meaningful detail was the most serious hindrance to my job search. [0] This bit caused its own problems with a few companies, who saw "algorithms" and thought something else.
      - grumps 14y ago
        Yea, I'm pretty much a pure systems engineer. I'm working on teaching my self some code but it's not going to get me out of there. It's rough... I'm close though. Hopefully in a few weeks life will change.
    - dsolomon 14y ago
      Seriously. Try explaining PfM, UML, DoDAF or FEAF, to a recruiter. Or Troux, Primavera, System Architect, or DOORS. Or why ISSEP/ISSAP can be critical. All while the recruiter is trying to do their job asking "Do you know C hashtag?" ... LOLWUT.

notJim 14y ago

Yeah, I looked at the PDF, and it's in-line with what I and my peers are paid. I am an engineer.