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>According to Ray, "Bankman-Fried continues to live a life of delusion." While Ray's team continues to work to recover funds lost, which has been estimated arou

>According to Ray, "Bankman-Fried continues to live a life of delusion." While Ray's team continues to work to recover funds lost, which has been estimated around $10 billion, the total amount of stakeholder claims filed is $23.6 quintillion dollars. "One quintillion is one billion billions," Ray told Kaplan. "It is the number 1 followed by 18 zeros. The task of addressing filed claims and reducing them to their proper and 'allowed' amount is monumental. Mr. Bankman-Fried assumes this is a breeze. He is wrong, very wrong."

ksherlock 3y ago
Somebody needs to explain that number to me. I did find this in a 11/29/2023 bankruptcy filing: " As of August 24, 2023, approximately 36,000 customer claims had been filed for a total of over $16 billion ^3 ... Non-customer claims asserted against the Debtors total approximately $40 billion ..." with this footnote: 3. "Filed customer claim amounts exclude approximately 200 frivolous or errant claims totaling approximately $9.2 quintillion."
gamepsys 3y ago
Is it actually possible that $23.6 quintillion dollars were lost and the economy didn't crash?
- changoplatanero 3y ago
  Its more likely that one or two wackos claimed losses of 23 quintillion dollars and the claims from all the sane people only add up to a rounding error on that amount
tivert 3y ago
> the total amount of stakeholder claims filed is $23.6 quintillion dollars What is that, 52,000 times the total wealth in the global economy? How could anyone quote a number like that in any serious context with a straight face? Did Bankman-Fried promise someone that he'd double their money every day, and they are expecting someone to pay out on that insane promise? https://www.credit-suisse.com/about-us/en/reports-research/global-wealth-report.html https://www.credit-suisse.com/about-us/en/reports-research/g... > 454.4 trillion USD – global wealth at end-2022 https://www.google.com/search?q=23.6+quintillion+%2F+454.4+trillion https://www.google.com/search?q=23.6+quintillion+%2F+454.4+t... > 23.6 quintillion / 454.4 trillion = 51936.6197183
- michael1999 3y ago
  Welcome to crypto!
  - Gibbon1 3y ago
    I feels like the tech business is become a lot like a dodgy casino with investors that invest the same way an old lady invests in a slot machine. Oh yes sometimes a machine (company) will pay out 10 to 1. Most of the time it pays out nothing before the machine catches fire.
- atombender 3y ago
  Ray is not arguing here that $23.6 quintillion dollars were lost. The first part of the quote clearly says the lost funds are estimated to be only $10B. He's saying the claims total $23.6 quintillion, and while it sounds like a non sequitur, from the context it's clear that he's making a point about the effort to work through the claims. The next part of the quote is: The task of addressing filed claims and reducing them to their proper and 'allowed' amount is monumental. Mr. Bankman-Fried assumes this is a breeze. He is wrong, very wrong. I'm not a lawyer, but the effort required to address filed claims doesn't seem relevant to the question of loss, however.
xrd 3y ago
I own some cryptocurrency. Am I able to assert that due to SBF's influence on crypto markets that my stake (which right now is about $1000 in value) would be worth approximately $6.7 sextillion dollars, give or take a few sextillion? Or, are only customers of FTX able to make completely ludicrous claims? I'm not a particular fan of SBF but that number seems insane and if that's the metric for his sentencing, then something is amiss. I doubt there is a connection, right? But the fact the new CEO calls it out indicates to me he isn't very qualified other than in gaslighting.
neilk 3y ago
I need to understand where this quintillion thing comes from. This is not just higher than the current world GDP, but higher than the cumulative world GDP since the origin of our species. Source: Our World In Data has estimates of global GDP since 1 CE. I imported the raw data into a spreadsheet, and did a rough integral. I added the year 300,000 BCE as an origin point with $0. I get 3.4e16 in 2017 dollars, a mere 34 quadrillion. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-gdp-over-the-long-run https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-gdp-over-the-long-...

ksherlock 3y ago

Somebody needs to explain that number to me. I did find this in a 11/29/2023 bankruptcy filing: " As of August 24, 2023, approximately 36,000 customer claims had been filed for a total of over $16 billion ^3 ... Non-customer claims asserted against the Debtors total approximately $40 billion ..." with this footnote: 3. "Filed customer claim amounts exclude approximately 200 frivolous or errant claims totaling approximately $9.2 quintillion."

gamepsys 3y ago

Is it actually possible that $23.6 quintillion dollars were lost and the economy didn't crash?

changoplatanero 3y ago
Its more likely that one or two wackos claimed losses of 23 quintillion dollars and the claims from all the sane people only add up to a rounding error on that amount

tivert 3y ago

> the total amount of stakeholder claims filed is $23.6 quintillion dollars What is that, 52,000 times the total wealth in the global economy? How could anyone quote a number like that in any serious context with a straight face? Did Bankman-Fried promise someone that he'd double their money every day, and they are expecting someone to pay out on that insane promise? https://www.credit-suisse.com/about-us/en/reports-research/global-wealth-report.html https://www.credit-suisse.com/about-us/en/reports-research/g... > 454.4 trillion USD – global wealth at end-2022 https://www.google.com/search?q=23.6+quintillion+%2F+454.4+trillion https://www.google.com/search?q=23.6+quintillion+%2F+454.4+t... > 23.6 quintillion / 454.4 trillion = 51936.6197183

michael1999 3y ago
Welcome to crypto!
- Gibbon1 3y ago
  I feels like the tech business is become a lot like a dodgy casino with investors that invest the same way an old lady invests in a slot machine. Oh yes sometimes a machine (company) will pay out 10 to 1. Most of the time it pays out nothing before the machine catches fire.
atombender 3y ago
Ray is not arguing here that $23.6 quintillion dollars were lost. The first part of the quote clearly says the lost funds are estimated to be only $10B. He's saying the claims total $23.6 quintillion, and while it sounds like a non sequitur, from the context it's clear that he's making a point about the effort to work through the claims. The next part of the quote is: The task of addressing filed claims and reducing them to their proper and 'allowed' amount is monumental. Mr. Bankman-Fried assumes this is a breeze. He is wrong, very wrong. I'm not a lawyer, but the effort required to address filed claims doesn't seem relevant to the question of loss, however.

xrd 3y ago

I own some cryptocurrency. Am I able to assert that due to SBF's influence on crypto markets that my stake (which right now is about $1000 in value) would be worth approximately $6.7 sextillion dollars, give or take a few sextillion? Or, are only customers of FTX able to make completely ludicrous claims? I'm not a particular fan of SBF but that number seems insane and if that's the metric for his sentencing, then something is amiss. I doubt there is a connection, right? But the fact the new CEO calls it out indicates to me he isn't very qualified other than in gaslighting.

neilk 3y ago

I need to understand where this quintillion thing comes from. This is not just higher than the current world GDP, but higher than the cumulative world GDP since the origin of our species. Source: Our World In Data has estimates of global GDP since 1 CE. I imported the raw data into a spreadsheet, and did a rough integral. I added the year 300,000 BCE as an origin point with $0. I get 3.4e16 in 2017 dollars, a mere 34 quadrillion. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-gdp-over-the-long-run https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-gdp-over-the-long-...