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Yeah but browser ≠ rendering engine. I know they get conflated a lot in tech, but when I’m using e.g. Arc on my Macintosh, I’m not using Chrome despite using th

by SllX 3y ago

Yeah but browser ≠ rendering engine. I know they get conflated a lot in tech, but when I’m using e.g. Arc on my Macintosh, I’m not using Chrome despite using the same rendering engine.

micromacrofoot 3y ago
ehhhh kind of, what's a browser without a rendering engine? just a fancy bookmark manager?
- SllX 3y ago
  Most browsers don’t have a rendering engine unique to them. Apple made that a policy for iPhones and its derivatives, but a browser is more than its rendering engine.
  - micromacrofoot 3y ago
    My point still stands though, I want to use an alternative browser engine like I do on every other computer... but Apple doesn't allow it
    - SllX 3y ago
      So do I, but that doesn’t negate my original point: for almost every category of App that comes on a stock iPhone, you can replace it with a 3rd party alternative. The exceptions are: SMS, Settings, and the Phone app for the numbers tied to your SIMs (there’s still a billion VoIP options including extra lines from carriers like T-Mobile’s Digits) and probably a couple others I’m forgetting. I think the Clock app has a couple of privileges not available to 3rd parties actually. You can use a 3rd party browser, but that browser will use the version of WebKit that comes with the operating system (except soon, in the EU, whenever 3rd party browsers with their own rendering engines ship there).
      - micromacrofoot 3y ago
        "almost every" is the problem: * no alternative browser engines * no alternative wallet apps * no alternative app stores (specifically so Apple can capture a % of sales) * no software streaming * no super apps * Apple-only special SMS features * Apple hardware (watches) get special access to iPhone hardware that stuff adds up
crabmusket 3y ago
Note that the "rendering engine" on iOS also takes care of JS, implementing web standard APIs, etc. And it is tied to the OS version. So, something like WebUSB comes out? Gotta wait for Apple to implement it, and also for your customers to upgrade their devices.
- SllX 3y ago
  Correct. Except the part about waiting for Apple to implement WebUSB because they’re not going to.
TheDong 3y ago
The extension ecosystem of browsers is pretty important though, and that is tied to the rendering engine. On Android, I can install firefox-for-android and run ublock origin to no longer see ads on websites. On iOS, that's not possible. Apple prevents mozilla from shipping a browser capable of running firefox addons. This is a case where Apple's policies are hampering security since, well, blocking ads on the web is the thing has had the single largest positive impact on security for my elderly relatives. Giving them ublock origin stopped them from clicking on a ridiculous number of scammy ads and popups.

by SllX 3y ago

Yeah but browser ≠ rendering engine. I know they get conflated a lot in tech, but when I’m using e.g. Arc on my Macintosh, I’m not using Chrome despite using the same rendering engine.

micromacrofoot 3y ago

ehhhh kind of, what's a browser without a rendering engine? just a fancy bookmark manager?

SllX 3y ago
Most browsers don’t have a rendering engine unique to them. Apple made that a policy for iPhones and its derivatives, but a browser is more than its rendering engine.
- micromacrofoot 3y ago
  My point still stands though, I want to use an alternative browser engine like I do on every other computer... but Apple doesn't allow it
  - SllX 3y ago
    So do I, but that doesn’t negate my original point: for almost every category of App that comes on a stock iPhone, you can replace it with a 3rd party alternative. The exceptions are: SMS, Settings, and the Phone app for the numbers tied to your SIMs (there’s still a billion VoIP options including extra lines from carriers like T-Mobile’s Digits) and probably a couple others I’m forgetting. I think the Clock app has a couple of privileges not available to 3rd parties actually. You can use a 3rd party browser, but that browser will use the version of WebKit that comes with the operating system (except soon, in the EU, whenever 3rd party browsers with their own rendering engines ship there).
    - micromacrofoot 3y ago
      "almost every" is the problem: * no alternative browser engines * no alternative wallet apps * no alternative app stores (specifically so Apple can capture a % of sales) * no software streaming * no super apps * Apple-only special SMS features * Apple hardware (watches) get special access to iPhone hardware that stuff adds up

crabmusket 3y ago

Note that the "rendering engine" on iOS also takes care of JS, implementing web standard APIs, etc. And it is tied to the OS version. So, something like WebUSB comes out? Gotta wait for Apple to implement it, and also for your customers to upgrade their devices.

SllX 3y ago
Correct. Except the part about waiting for Apple to implement WebUSB because they’re not going to.

TheDong 3y ago

The extension ecosystem of browsers is pretty important though, and that is tied to the rendering engine. On Android, I can install firefox-for-android and run ublock origin to no longer see ads on websites. On iOS, that's not possible. Apple prevents mozilla from shipping a browser capable of running firefox addons. This is a case where Apple's policies are hampering security since, well, blocking ads on the web is the thing has had the single largest positive impact on security for my elderly relatives. Giving them ublock origin stopped them from clicking on a ridiculous number of scammy ads and popups.