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This quote is pretty consistent with my take on what Apple has been up to: > In the end , Apple deploys privacy and security justifications as an elastic shie

This quote is pretty consistent with my take on what Apple has been up to: > In the end , Apple deploys privacy and security justifications as an elastic shield that can stretch or contract to serve Apple's financial and business interests .

fundad 3y ago
Do you think? Is it in their financial and business interest to differentiate their product and keep working at it? I wonder if that’s expensive
- kelnos 3y ago
  The sarcasm isn't really necessary. I think most of us would prefer to live in a world where the capitalist mentality didn't trump all other considerations. It's actually possible for a company like Apple to be laser-focused on privacy and giving their users the best possible options, and still make a more-than-healthy profit margin. Hell, with Apple's cash hoard, they could afford to give iPhones away for at least a couple years without much trouble. I'm not saying companies should be obligated to do crazy things like this once they have "enough" money, but I think it illustrates that there's no inherent reason why many companies need to take any particular action that increases revenue, regardless of the consequences. Apple's long-standing culture of secrecy and exclusivity is the problem, really.
- ants_everywhere 3y ago
  The point of the quote was not that it's in their interest to differentiate. The point was that, according to the complaint and for reasons they lay out, their marketing is dishonest and they frequently put their users at increased risk when it's to their financial to do so. In other words, they're saying Apple's privacy and security stance is a bit like the trope of politicians saying "think of the children!" whenever they are selling a law that restricts liberty.
- Hikikomori 3y ago
  Doesn't seem that expensive considering their profit margins.
twojobsoneboss 3y ago
They are a company who’s out to make money and not a non profit, no?
zipping1549 3y ago
Truer words never been said
bredren 3y ago
In the EU / app store ballyhoo, privacy / security has been used too often. But in general, Apple has relentlessly set standards for data privacy that no other business seemed willing or able to provide. Far from perfect, (CN datacenters) but still seemingly far out ahead. People don't normally pay for privacy or data security because they're not considered valuable until something bad happens. So I can at least understand why the company might lean on this loss-leader to try and prop up its position in the face of unwanted regulation.
- ants_everywhere 3y ago
  > Apple has relentlessly set standards for data privacy that no other business seemed willing or able to provide One of the big differences between Google and Apple is that users treat Google (IMO rightly) as a privacy threat, but treat Apple as a privacy ally. Apple's data privacy positions look a lot different if you treat them also as a privacy threat. For example, it becomes really odd that you can't set a non-Apple secure messaging app as your SMS app, or set a non-Apple browser as your default web browser. Apple insists that you share your browsing and messaging data with them. What's the risk here? The risk is that, as has happened with nearly every darling tech company in history, Apple decides to end the honeymoon period at some point because that's what the market demands. Then you're in a position where you've handed over to Apple gobs of private data that they have unencrypted backups of.
  - xvector 3y ago
    > Then you're in a position where you've handed over to Apple gobs of private data that they have unencrypted backups of. What are you even talking about? You can E2EE all your information in iCloud, even your iOS backups, such that Apple cannot access them.
    - concinds 3y ago
      iCloud E2EE ("Advanced Data Protection") is far from perfect: - hashes of files and photos are not E2E encrypted even with ADP on, and are accessible by Apple, "so Apple can perform deduplication". It also means they still know if you have a given photo in your photo roll. - file type, file size, modifid/created timestamps (Photos/Drive) are not E2E encrypted even with ADP on, and are accessible by Apple Apple says these are due to technical limitations and they're working on it, but be aware of these limitations.
tim333 3y ago
The securtiy aspects are a big deal and I say this as someone who is not bothered at all by ad tracking and cookies and the like. But I and a lot of people have banking and crypto stuff on the phone and not having people able to hack in and steal your money is significant.

fundad 3y ago

Do you think? Is it in their financial and business interest to differentiate their product and keep working at it? I wonder if that’s expensive

kelnos 3y ago
The sarcasm isn't really necessary. I think most of us would prefer to live in a world where the capitalist mentality didn't trump all other considerations. It's actually possible for a company like Apple to be laser-focused on privacy and giving their users the best possible options, and still make a more-than-healthy profit margin. Hell, with Apple's cash hoard, they could afford to give iPhones away for at least a couple years without much trouble. I'm not saying companies should be obligated to do crazy things like this once they have "enough" money, but I think it illustrates that there's no inherent reason why many companies need to take any particular action that increases revenue, regardless of the consequences. Apple's long-standing culture of secrecy and exclusivity is the problem, really.
ants_everywhere 3y ago
The point of the quote was not that it's in their interest to differentiate. The point was that, according to the complaint and for reasons they lay out, their marketing is dishonest and they frequently put their users at increased risk when it's to their financial to do so. In other words, they're saying Apple's privacy and security stance is a bit like the trope of politicians saying "think of the children!" whenever they are selling a law that restricts liberty.
Hikikomori 3y ago
Doesn't seem that expensive considering their profit margins.

twojobsoneboss 3y ago

They are a company who’s out to make money and not a non profit, no?

zipping1549 3y ago

Truer words never been said

bredren 3y ago

In the EU / app store ballyhoo, privacy / security has been used too often. But in general, Apple has relentlessly set standards for data privacy that no other business seemed willing or able to provide. Far from perfect, (CN datacenters) but still seemingly far out ahead. People don't normally pay for privacy or data security because they're not considered valuable until something bad happens. So I can at least understand why the company might lean on this loss-leader to try and prop up its position in the face of unwanted regulation.

ants_everywhere 3y ago
> Apple has relentlessly set standards for data privacy that no other business seemed willing or able to provide One of the big differences between Google and Apple is that users treat Google (IMO rightly) as a privacy threat, but treat Apple as a privacy ally. Apple's data privacy positions look a lot different if you treat them also as a privacy threat. For example, it becomes really odd that you can't set a non-Apple secure messaging app as your SMS app, or set a non-Apple browser as your default web browser. Apple insists that you share your browsing and messaging data with them. What's the risk here? The risk is that, as has happened with nearly every darling tech company in history, Apple decides to end the honeymoon period at some point because that's what the market demands. Then you're in a position where you've handed over to Apple gobs of private data that they have unencrypted backups of.
- xvector 3y ago
  > Then you're in a position where you've handed over to Apple gobs of private data that they have unencrypted backups of. What are you even talking about? You can E2EE all your information in iCloud, even your iOS backups, such that Apple cannot access them.
  - concinds 3y ago
    iCloud E2EE ("Advanced Data Protection") is far from perfect: - hashes of files and photos are not E2E encrypted even with ADP on, and are accessible by Apple, "so Apple can perform deduplication". It also means they still know if you have a given photo in your photo roll. - file type, file size, modifid/created timestamps (Photos/Drive) are not E2E encrypted even with ADP on, and are accessible by Apple Apple says these are due to technical limitations and they're working on it, but be aware of these limitations.

tim333 3y ago

The securtiy aspects are a big deal and I say this as someone who is not bothered at all by ad tracking and cookies and the like. But I and a lot of people have banking and crypto stuff on the phone and not having people able to hack in and steal your money is significant.