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This makes me so angry. You have a choice in the market! Everything on this list is a feature which I am choosing as the customer. If I didn't want these fea

This makes me so angry. You have a choice in the market! Everything on this list is a feature which I am choosing as the customer. If I didn't want these features and benefits then I would make a different choice as a consumer. As a consumer I am not a victim. I can choose between iOS, Android, or something else.

tick_tock_tick 3y ago
Many victim are adamant that they are not actually a victim no matter what evidence is provided. Luckily anti-trust law doesn't care about your opinion.
- 8fingerlouie 3y ago
  But are you really a victim ? While the smartphone market is not exactly a broad selection of competing standards, you can chose between Android and iPhone, and over time they've more or less come to represent opposing poles, where Android initially embraced openness and iPhone was the walled garden. People picked based on preferences, but it's not like any of the platforms lock you in. They even have tools to facilitate easy switching between platforms. Many companies, especially in highly regulated industries, specifically pick iPhone over Android for the ability to lock down the device. In my industry, our IT department has essentially given up getting Android "certified" to comply with regulations. Apple recently opened up the App Store in the EU, in theory allowing 3rd party stores, but despite almost everybody i know using iPhones, i have yet to see anything 3rd party installed.
baq 3y ago
It isn't about you, it's about me who can't install iMessage on an Andorid phone or a Linux desktop and participate in your group chats in reasonable capacity.
- supportengineer 3y ago
  One question: Who owns iMessage? Who pays to run the servers? Who pays for the bandwidth? Do you allow your neighbors to use your yard and driveway that you pay for?
  - skeaker 3y ago
    If I had billions of dollars and a yard the size of a small country I probably wouldn't mind...
  - baq 3y ago
    I postulate people would gladly pay a cup of coffee's worth for a first party app and/or subscription. Certainly easier than shelling out a few hundred bucks for an iDevice.
    - criddell 3y ago
      That’s kind of what I think. Make an iCloud subscription tier that includes access to messages and then include it in the web-browser version of iCloud and make an Android app for messages. I can’t imagine it would have to cost much more than $10-$15.
      - warkdarrior 3y ago
        This would be an Apple service. It'd cost $99/month to view the text of messages on non-iPhone devices, and an additional $99/month to view any photos/videos/emojis attached to messages.
        Apocryphon 3y ago
        The base plan for iCloud+ is 99 cents a month and the next tier is $2.99, they're pretty reasonable about these services.
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    > Who pays to run the servers? Who pays for the bandwidth? I f%$@ing do. I paid when I bought an iPhone, Mac and iPad. And even if it’s not enough - provide it as a service for a fee.
jobs_throwaway 3y ago
You are specifically choosing to not have message interoperability? Why?
- supportengineer 3y ago
  We have message interoperability already. I can install any messenger of my choosing. I can install WeChat, Facebook Messenger, Slack, Signal, etc, etc. But I don't need any of those because 99% of the people I communicate with are on iMessage.
  - skeaker 3y ago
    And again, you choose to not be able to communicate with that 1% over iMessage why? It sounds like being able to do so would only benefit you.
    - supportengineer 3y ago
      I actually offered to buy that person an iPhone. But regardless, no one is a victim here.
      - dleink 3y ago
        Android has a 70% global market share. You really only communicate with one person of that 70%?
        mattl 3y ago
        Everyone I communicate with who has an Android device has WhatsApp or Signal installed. Same is true of 99% of iPhone users.
      - skeaker 3y ago
        Seems it would have costed you a lot less if Apple just didn't arbitrarily block that person in the first place.
      - 3y ago
skyyler 3y ago
I wonder if people made comments like these in support of Internet Explorer when Microsoft was dealing with antitrust law in court.
- foooorsyth 3y ago
  Uh, yeah they did. Many people thought at that time that DOJ was overstepping. Many still do. In hindsight, Microsoft’s behavior at the time seems like small potatoes compared to the ecosystem protection that occurs today.
- pchristensen 3y ago
  You can look at adoption rates of IE vs Firefox and Chrome, and compare them to iOS vs Android.
lijok 3y ago
You're not buying a literal apple. Purchasing context does not stop at point of sale.

tick_tock_tick 3y ago

Many victim are adamant that they are not actually a victim no matter what evidence is provided. Luckily anti-trust law doesn't care about your opinion.

8fingerlouie 3y ago
But are you really a victim ? While the smartphone market is not exactly a broad selection of competing standards, you can chose between Android and iPhone, and over time they've more or less come to represent opposing poles, where Android initially embraced openness and iPhone was the walled garden. People picked based on preferences, but it's not like any of the platforms lock you in. They even have tools to facilitate easy switching between platforms. Many companies, especially in highly regulated industries, specifically pick iPhone over Android for the ability to lock down the device. In my industry, our IT department has essentially given up getting Android "certified" to comply with regulations. Apple recently opened up the App Store in the EU, in theory allowing 3rd party stores, but despite almost everybody i know using iPhones, i have yet to see anything 3rd party installed.

baq 3y ago

It isn't about you, it's about me who can't install iMessage on an Andorid phone or a Linux desktop and participate in your group chats in reasonable capacity.

supportengineer 3y ago
One question: Who owns iMessage? Who pays to run the servers? Who pays for the bandwidth? Do you allow your neighbors to use your yard and driveway that you pay for?
- skeaker 3y ago
  If I had billions of dollars and a yard the size of a small country I probably wouldn't mind...
- baq 3y ago
  I postulate people would gladly pay a cup of coffee's worth for a first party app and/or subscription. Certainly easier than shelling out a few hundred bucks for an iDevice.
  - criddell 3y ago
    That’s kind of what I think. Make an iCloud subscription tier that includes access to messages and then include it in the web-browser version of iCloud and make an Android app for messages. I can’t imagine it would have to cost much more than $10-$15.
    - warkdarrior 3y ago
      This would be an Apple service. It'd cost $99/month to view the text of messages on non-iPhone devices, and an additional $99/month to view any photos/videos/emojis attached to messages.
      - Apocryphon 3y ago
        The base plan for iCloud+ is 99 cents a month and the next tier is $2.99, they're pretty reasonable about these services.
- wiseowise 3y ago
  > Who pays to run the servers? Who pays for the bandwidth? I f%$@ing do. I paid when I bought an iPhone, Mac and iPad. And even if it’s not enough - provide it as a service for a fee.

jobs_throwaway 3y ago

You are specifically choosing to not have message interoperability? Why?

supportengineer 3y ago
We have message interoperability already. I can install any messenger of my choosing. I can install WeChat, Facebook Messenger, Slack, Signal, etc, etc. But I don't need any of those because 99% of the people I communicate with are on iMessage.
- skeaker 3y ago
  And again, you choose to not be able to communicate with that 1% over iMessage why? It sounds like being able to do so would only benefit you.
  - supportengineer 3y ago
    I actually offered to buy that person an iPhone. But regardless, no one is a victim here.
    - dleink 3y ago
      Android has a 70% global market share. You really only communicate with one person of that 70%?
      - mattl 3y ago
        Everyone I communicate with who has an Android device has WhatsApp or Signal installed. Same is true of 99% of iPhone users.
    - skeaker 3y ago
      Seems it would have costed you a lot less if Apple just didn't arbitrarily block that person in the first place.
    - 3y ago

skyyler 3y ago

I wonder if people made comments like these in support of Internet Explorer when Microsoft was dealing with antitrust law in court.

foooorsyth 3y ago
Uh, yeah they did. Many people thought at that time that DOJ was overstepping. Many still do. In hindsight, Microsoft’s behavior at the time seems like small potatoes compared to the ecosystem protection that occurs today.
pchristensen 3y ago
You can look at adoption rates of IE vs Firefox and Chrome, and compare them to iOS vs Android.

lijok 3y ago

You're not buying a literal apple. Purchasing context does not stop at point of sale.