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The Pebble was very obviously hampered by iOS limitations. In order to offload any code to the phone, you either had to write the code in Javascript (so it was

The Pebble was very obviously hampered by iOS limitations. In order to offload any code to the phone, you either had to write the code in Javascript (so it was basically a web app) or direct the user to manually download a separate companion app from the App Store. If iOS killed the companion app because it hadn't been opened on the iPhone recently (because, y'know, you were using it on your watch and not your phone), you had to manually relaunch the app on your phone. This is all before even getting into things like ecosystem integration.

shagie 3y ago
The Pebble was released in 2013. The two way communication SDK with Pebble was released in May of 2013. In February of 2015, the 2.0 Pebble SDK was released with further integrations. The first iWatch was announced in September 2014 and released in April of 2015. The Pebble was discontinued in 2016. What integrations are you expecting Apple to have released prior to its own release? What functionality did iOS lack that android provided that hampered Pebble's development on iOS?
- daghamm 3y ago
  "The first iWatch was announced in September 2014 and released in April of 2015." Just a side note: apple has in past started limiting other companies products as soon as they decide to create a competitor and sometimes years before it hits the market. IIRC Spotify has been bitten by this at least once, which resulted in a lawsuit.
  - shagie 3y ago
    What limitations did Apple place in 2013 (or 2014 or 2015) that reduced the functionality of Pebble in light of a forthcoming iWatch? If it was a "it worked and then Apple took away this API that we were going to use" that would be one thing. If it was "the iPhone didn't have the functionality for other devices to read messages over BlueTooth until 2015 with iOS 8" - that's a different claim.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      I don't know about Pebble, but Tile got restricted really hard once Apple decided to make the Apple Tag. There's many rants/statements from the Tile CEO on this subject. So this behavior isn't a relic of old APIs
      - shagie 3y ago
        https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/04/tile-ceo-on-competition-from-apple/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/04/tile-ceo-on-competition... > > If you look at the history between Tile and Apple, we had a very symbiotic relationship. They sold Tile in their stores, we were highlighted at WWDC 2019, and then they launched Find My in 2019, and right when they launched their Find My app, which is effectively a competitor of Tile, they made a number of changes to their OS that made it very difficult for our customers to enable Tile. And then once they got it enabled, they started showing notifications that basically made it seem like Tile was broken. > Prober is talking about changes that Apple made to location services permissions. For privacy purposes, Apple stopped making it easy for apps to get permanent access to a user's location. Apps in iOS 13 were not initially allowed to present an "Always Allow" option when requesting location access, and the feature had to be enabled in the Settings app. Apple also started sending regular reminders to customers letting them know their location was being used. > Tile was not happy with these privacy changes and that privacy tweak set Tile against Apple, with Tile in 2019 calling on Congress to "level the playing field." > > The main points of differentiation of AirTags vis a vis Tile are enabled by platform capabilities that we don't have access to. > Apple has, in fact, launched the Find My network that gives third-party accessories some of the same access that AirTags have, and Find My network accessories will be able to access the U1 chip in the iPhone 11 and 12 models much like the AirTags, but Tile won't be able to use the Find My network unless it abandons its own app and infrastructure, which it is likely unwilling to do. > Prober said that Tile has been "seeking to access" the U1 chip since its introduction in the iPhone , and has been denied. ---- Should Apple have a "grant once for app, always allow location service?" (note: this would allow an innocuous app to turn into a tracker with a later update). Or should Apple have a "this app has accessed your location {N} times in the last 24 hours?" ... or some other functionality? Is "grant once, always allow" a security risk for users? For U1 chip access: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/nearbyinteraction/implementing_spatial_interactions_with_third-party_accessories https://developer.apple.com/documentation/nearbyinteraction/... and https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10165/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10165/
  - cush 3y ago
    The complaint is outlined directly in the document https://x.com/ericmigi/status/1770832870870827149 https://x.com/ericmigi/status/1770832870870827149
- Wowfunhappy 3y ago
  Well to begin with, it is my understanding that the specific limitations listed still exist. Can Bluetooth devices remotely start apps now, or keep them in the background? I only used Pebble as an example because I owned a Pebble, I'm not familiar with Garmen's watches. But seperately, I think it's really bad for innovation if no new product categories can exist unless Apple makes them first! You can imagine a different type of company that would have been delighted to work with Pebble and add functionality to their operating system, because third party compatibility strengthens their core product. And of course, if this were the Mac, Pebble would not have needed Apple's cooperation...
  - astrange 3y ago
    Bluetooth devices can start apps in the background. I have two that do this, Beddit and <redacted because they famously don't let you mention you have one>.

shagie 3y ago

The Pebble was released in 2013. The two way communication SDK with Pebble was released in May of 2013. In February of 2015, the 2.0 Pebble SDK was released with further integrations. The first iWatch was announced in September 2014 and released in April of 2015. The Pebble was discontinued in 2016. What integrations are you expecting Apple to have released prior to its own release? What functionality did iOS lack that android provided that hampered Pebble's development on iOS?

daghamm 3y ago
"The first iWatch was announced in September 2014 and released in April of 2015." Just a side note: apple has in past started limiting other companies products as soon as they decide to create a competitor and sometimes years before it hits the market. IIRC Spotify has been bitten by this at least once, which resulted in a lawsuit.
- shagie 3y ago
  What limitations did Apple place in 2013 (or 2014 or 2015) that reduced the functionality of Pebble in light of a forthcoming iWatch? If it was a "it worked and then Apple took away this API that we were going to use" that would be one thing. If it was "the iPhone didn't have the functionality for other devices to read messages over BlueTooth until 2015 with iOS 8" - that's a different claim.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    I don't know about Pebble, but Tile got restricted really hard once Apple decided to make the Apple Tag. There's many rants/statements from the Tile CEO on this subject. So this behavior isn't a relic of old APIs
    - shagie 3y ago
      https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/04/tile-ceo-on-competition-from-apple/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/04/tile-ceo-on-competition... > > If you look at the history between Tile and Apple, we had a very symbiotic relationship. They sold Tile in their stores, we were highlighted at WWDC 2019, and then they launched Find My in 2019, and right when they launched their Find My app, which is effectively a competitor of Tile, they made a number of changes to their OS that made it very difficult for our customers to enable Tile. And then once they got it enabled, they started showing notifications that basically made it seem like Tile was broken. > Prober is talking about changes that Apple made to location services permissions. For privacy purposes, Apple stopped making it easy for apps to get permanent access to a user's location. Apps in iOS 13 were not initially allowed to present an "Always Allow" option when requesting location access, and the feature had to be enabled in the Settings app. Apple also started sending regular reminders to customers letting them know their location was being used. > Tile was not happy with these privacy changes and that privacy tweak set Tile against Apple, with Tile in 2019 calling on Congress to "level the playing field." > > The main points of differentiation of AirTags vis a vis Tile are enabled by platform capabilities that we don't have access to. > Apple has, in fact, launched the Find My network that gives third-party accessories some of the same access that AirTags have, and Find My network accessories will be able to access the U1 chip in the iPhone 11 and 12 models much like the AirTags, but Tile won't be able to use the Find My network unless it abandons its own app and infrastructure, which it is likely unwilling to do. > Prober said that Tile has been "seeking to access" the U1 chip since its introduction in the iPhone , and has been denied. ---- Should Apple have a "grant once for app, always allow location service?" (note: this would allow an innocuous app to turn into a tracker with a later update). Or should Apple have a "this app has accessed your location {N} times in the last 24 hours?" ... or some other functionality? Is "grant once, always allow" a security risk for users? For U1 chip access: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/nearbyinteraction/implementing_spatial_interactions_with_third-party_accessories https://developer.apple.com/documentation/nearbyinteraction/... and https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10165/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10165/
- cush 3y ago
  The complaint is outlined directly in the document https://x.com/ericmigi/status/1770832870870827149 https://x.com/ericmigi/status/1770832870870827149
Wowfunhappy 3y ago
Well to begin with, it is my understanding that the specific limitations listed still exist. Can Bluetooth devices remotely start apps now, or keep them in the background? I only used Pebble as an example because I owned a Pebble, I'm not familiar with Garmen's watches. But seperately, I think it's really bad for innovation if no new product categories can exist unless Apple makes them first! You can imagine a different type of company that would have been delighted to work with Pebble and add functionality to their operating system, because third party compatibility strengthens their core product. And of course, if this were the Mac, Pebble would not have needed Apple's cooperation...
- astrange 3y ago
  Bluetooth devices can start apps in the background. I have two that do this, Beddit and <redacted because they famously don't let you mention you have one>.