4 ms·

"the reality that in 2024 their software kind of sucks, and that their customers only use it because they don't have alternative" That's an extremely hot take.

"the reality that in 2024 their software kind of sucks, and that their customers only use it because they don't have alternative" That's an extremely hot take. When devices are mostly just slabs of glass and the interface and what is done, is entirely the software, customers are choosing the device based on the Apple software, not in spite of it.

EasyMark 3y ago
Yeah this stuff usually ends up "I don't like the interface" when you press people. Which is fine. However my macbooks have been perfectly serviceable and still ticking while my former asus and dell laptops died after a few years right before I switched over to mac laptops and one is 7 years old and still ticking with not too bad battery life. That said I find apple has probably overstepped their social contract as a corporation and it's likely time for a little audit
- ragazzina 3y ago
  >Yeah this stuff usually ends up "I don't like the interface" when you press people. In Apple Books, you can't decide which books you want to keep on your device. In iOS Storage, you cannot see the largest pictures/videos (you used to be able to do that, they removed it to make people subscribe to iCloud). The iOS keyboard/autocorrect is so terrible it's almost unusable. You can't even set a vibrating alarm on iPhone without enabling vibration everywhere, come on.
VyseofArcadia 3y ago
> customers are choosing the device based on the Apple software, not in spite of it. https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-teens-dread-the-green-text-bubble-11641618009 https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-...
- ChildOfChaos 3y ago
  So the basis of the argument is a different coloured bubble for a messaging application? that is a society issue, not an apple issue, the different messages should be different colours, so you understand the difference.
  - VyseofArcadia 3y ago
    Did it occur to you that Apple deliberately designed iMessages in such a way as to take advantage of the inevitable tribalism to further increase adoption of their own products? Peer pressure is one of the strongest forces in sales.
    - ChildOfChaos 3y ago
      Yes, but how much software does something similar? if you are going to penalize Apple for this you will have to penalize a huge amount of companies, it's a very slippery slope, as what do you define as being anti-competitive and what do you define also being a genuine need to highlight the difference? What are you saying Apple should have done/be made to do? Make all the messages the same colour? This causes issues for the user not being able to tell what features are available in messaging that person and then it can be even more confusing to them, you are going to have to mark it some way which is turn is going to have somewhat of the same affect. A lot of these measures from governments don't actually end up helping users, they end up just making the end user experience worse. For Apple, this was likely a win-win, they need to show the difference and it has such knock on affect, but I think this is the problem, Apple has a way of looking at things and way of doing certain things, a lot of the things that people are upset about in this lawsuit and beyond area consequence of that, but isn't nessecery the sole purpose of why Apple is doing things this way in the first place, those people that get angry at Apple seem to miss those points or disagree with that way of doing it.
  - badrequest 3y ago
    If it's a society issue that Apple takes advantage of to carve a monopoly for itself, then that's an Apple issue.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
katbyte 3y ago
I use apple products because of the software and consider it better then the alternatives.
int_19h 3y ago
It really depends. With MacBooks, for example, many people who buy them these days do so because of things like battery life and quality of the trackpad, while quietly hating on macOS.
- CharlieDigital 3y ago
  I'm in this camp. I find some of the UX to be really, really questionable. The default animations and sounds feel so unbefitting for a machine in a professional context. The stupid notch; when I use a screen recording app, it uses a slot on the right to stop recording once I start using the app but if there are just enough icons, that icon disappears under the notch...... If it weren't for the battery life and speed, I would not use it.
- ChildOfChaos 3y ago
  I much perfer MacOS over Windows. Windows is horrible, it's messy, overly cluttered and bloated. MacOS is so much cleaner and nicer, that with nice hardware is why people buy Apple devices, at least that is the same with everyone I know.
CharlieDigital 3y ago
I don't know if I'm the exception, but I also think Apple's software absolutely sucks. UX is complete and utter trash. But the M1 and onwards hardware is so good, I put up with it. Just off the top of my head: - Never had a $2000+ laptop that couldn't connect with more than 2 monitors without an expensive DisplayLink dock and drivers. And even then, it's janky AF - Rendering on non-Apple external monitors sucks; night and day difference when I connect a Windows laptop to my Dell monitors - Terrible with system font scaling - Inconsistent usage of button sizes in their native dialogs - Can't tab cycle through minimized windows - Windowing system sucks compared to Windows - Whatever is happening here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnGT041xkGE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnGT041xkGE - I ship a PWA for one of my apps and by far Safari is the one that has the most issues with updating
- evandale 3y ago
  > Can't tab cycle through minimized windows This drives me absolutely NUTS and I thought it was a me problem. Where the hell do things go when they're minimized on macos!!? There's all these questions asking about cmd+tabbing to minimized windows and the answer is to hold option while you hold cmd after selecting the minimized window and then let go of cmd.. but if there's 2 Chrome windows and one is minimized this doesn't work at all.
  - CharlieDigital 3y ago
    I agree. I've had people tell me "That's not the Mac way; use another desktop". Oh, OK; but it sure would be handy if I could somehow access my minimized windows easily with my keyboard can we have that, too?
  - dagmx 3y ago
    Cmd+Tilde cycles through open windows of a single application
    - CharlieDigital 3y ago
      Except the minimized ones......

EasyMark 3y ago

Yeah this stuff usually ends up "I don't like the interface" when you press people. Which is fine. However my macbooks have been perfectly serviceable and still ticking while my former asus and dell laptops died after a few years right before I switched over to mac laptops and one is 7 years old and still ticking with not too bad battery life. That said I find apple has probably overstepped their social contract as a corporation and it's likely time for a little audit

ragazzina 3y ago
>Yeah this stuff usually ends up "I don't like the interface" when you press people. In Apple Books, you can't decide which books you want to keep on your device. In iOS Storage, you cannot see the largest pictures/videos (you used to be able to do that, they removed it to make people subscribe to iCloud). The iOS keyboard/autocorrect is so terrible it's almost unusable. You can't even set a vibrating alarm on iPhone without enabling vibration everywhere, come on.

VyseofArcadia 3y ago

> customers are choosing the device based on the Apple software, not in spite of it. https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-teens-dread-the-green-text-bubble-11641618009 https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-...

ChildOfChaos 3y ago
So the basis of the argument is a different coloured bubble for a messaging application? that is a society issue, not an apple issue, the different messages should be different colours, so you understand the difference.
- VyseofArcadia 3y ago
  Did it occur to you that Apple deliberately designed iMessages in such a way as to take advantage of the inevitable tribalism to further increase adoption of their own products? Peer pressure is one of the strongest forces in sales.
  - ChildOfChaos 3y ago
    Yes, but how much software does something similar? if you are going to penalize Apple for this you will have to penalize a huge amount of companies, it's a very slippery slope, as what do you define as being anti-competitive and what do you define also being a genuine need to highlight the difference? What are you saying Apple should have done/be made to do? Make all the messages the same colour? This causes issues for the user not being able to tell what features are available in messaging that person and then it can be even more confusing to them, you are going to have to mark it some way which is turn is going to have somewhat of the same affect. A lot of these measures from governments don't actually end up helping users, they end up just making the end user experience worse. For Apple, this was likely a win-win, they need to show the difference and it has such knock on affect, but I think this is the problem, Apple has a way of looking at things and way of doing certain things, a lot of the things that people are upset about in this lawsuit and beyond area consequence of that, but isn't nessecery the sole purpose of why Apple is doing things this way in the first place, those people that get angry at Apple seem to miss those points or disagree with that way of doing it.
- badrequest 3y ago
  If it's a society issue that Apple takes advantage of to carve a monopoly for itself, then that's an Apple issue.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

katbyte 3y ago

I use apple products because of the software and consider it better then the alternatives.

int_19h 3y ago

It really depends. With MacBooks, for example, many people who buy them these days do so because of things like battery life and quality of the trackpad, while quietly hating on macOS.

CharlieDigital 3y ago
I'm in this camp. I find some of the UX to be really, really questionable. The default animations and sounds feel so unbefitting for a machine in a professional context. The stupid notch; when I use a screen recording app, it uses a slot on the right to stop recording once I start using the app but if there are just enough icons, that icon disappears under the notch...... If it weren't for the battery life and speed, I would not use it.
ChildOfChaos 3y ago
I much perfer MacOS over Windows. Windows is horrible, it's messy, overly cluttered and bloated. MacOS is so much cleaner and nicer, that with nice hardware is why people buy Apple devices, at least that is the same with everyone I know.

CharlieDigital 3y ago

I don't know if I'm the exception, but I also think Apple's software absolutely sucks. UX is complete and utter trash. But the M1 and onwards hardware is so good, I put up with it. Just off the top of my head: - Never had a $2000+ laptop that couldn't connect with more than 2 monitors without an expensive DisplayLink dock and drivers. And even then, it's janky AF - Rendering on non-Apple external monitors sucks; night and day difference when I connect a Windows laptop to my Dell monitors - Terrible with system font scaling - Inconsistent usage of button sizes in their native dialogs - Can't tab cycle through minimized windows - Windowing system sucks compared to Windows - Whatever is happening here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnGT041xkGE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnGT041xkGE - I ship a PWA for one of my apps and by far Safari is the one that has the most issues with updating

evandale 3y ago
> Can't tab cycle through minimized windows This drives me absolutely NUTS and I thought it was a me problem. Where the hell do things go when they're minimized on macos!!? There's all these questions asking about cmd+tabbing to minimized windows and the answer is to hold option while you hold cmd after selecting the minimized window and then let go of cmd.. but if there's 2 Chrome windows and one is minimized this doesn't work at all.
- CharlieDigital 3y ago
  I agree. I've had people tell me "That's not the Mac way; use another desktop". Oh, OK; but it sure would be handy if I could somehow access my minimized windows easily with my keyboard can we have that, too?
- dagmx 3y ago
  Cmd+Tilde cycles through open windows of a single application
  - CharlieDigital 3y ago
    Except the minimized ones......