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> easy to make alternatives to Apple products Please, go do it. You'll be very rich very quick and I'll eagerly buy your products once you succeed. Unfortunat

> easy to make alternatives to Apple products Please, go do it. You'll be very rich very quick and I'll eagerly buy your products once you succeed. Unfortunately you'll find out it's not actually easy at all when you realize that consumers care about weight, size, temperature and battery life which are all things apple excels at. Their hardware is really quite good, unfortunately the software is horribly crippled.

endisneigh 3y ago
The Pixel 8 pro has superior battery life and camera to the iPhone 15. And that’s to say nothing of OnePlus or Samsung.
- globular-toast 3y ago
  So in a free market you'd expect them to outcompete the iPhone, no? How do you explain the iPhone being dominant despite being inferior? Edit: in case of confusion, I'm asking this rhetorically in reply to someone who argues there is no monopoly...
  - endisneigh 3y ago
    Marketing - android devices were notoriously janky in their beginning.
    - theshrike79 3y ago
      The vast majority of Android devices still are. You can buy an "Android" phone, use it until EOL (no OS updates), get a new "Android" phone and it's a 100% different experience UI-wise and even the buttons are in different places. Tinkerers love it, normal users just want a phone that works the same as the previous one.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - nkohari 3y ago
    The Apple ecosystem is part of what you're buying with an iPhone. As a consumer, I really like that I can buy a MacBook, an iPhone, and AirPods, and have them all work seamlessly together because they were designed to do so. I'm even willing to pay extra for each product to ensure that they work together in concert, as well as a subscription for a service (iCloud) that glues them all together.
  - dutchCourage 3y ago
    Besides the fact that consumers aren't as rational as your question seems to imply, some of the reasons for the iPhone's dominance are the same reasons Apple are getting sued.
  - kergonath 3y ago
    Because a phone is not just a battery and a camera?
- beeboobaa3 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - AnarchismIsCool 3y ago
    I'll take all of that in exchange for open software and better performance. I'm so fucking tired of the "thinness wars".
    - beeboobaa3 3y ago
      So will I. That does not diminish the point of my previous comment. I'd still like to be able to run a quality, open, OS on Apple's hardware though.
      - mrkstu 3y ago
        Hardware that wouldn't exist without the high margins generated by their vertical integration.
        AnarchismIsCool 3y ago
        If they posted the bootloader keys to Twitter right now it wouldn't lose them any money. Nobody is going to stop buying their shit because of that, but rather they might start selling more because now they can use the hardware for applications that would have been previously impossible. To put it differently, Skyrim would have died as a game within a few months of release if it didn't support mods, but instead they didn't try to restrict them and made a horrifying quantity of money as a result.
        mrkstu 3y ago
        That may be true now, but it doesn't debunk the point that the hardware that is now so desirable exists solely because of their vertical integration.
- repler 3y ago
  and how’s the data privacy?
  - rpmisms 3y ago
    Fine, and if you want better, just install GrapheneOS.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- vundercind 3y ago
  Real battery life, or marketing spec sheet battery life? One of the things that impressed me about Apple when I started using their products was that advertised battery life was usually within 10% of what I’d actually get. I was used to those being lies to the tune of 30-50% from other vendors (phone and laptop alike)
  - robocat 3y ago
    iPhone SE battery life is shockingly poor versus the last 3 previous Androids I had which would last 2 days of light use. It's probably my number one gripe with the SE. It runs flat when I need it. One time 4 hours walk because couldn't call a taxi (_luckily_ I hitched ride with a dodgy drug dealer instead - battery life matters!). Or staying overnight and not charging so needing to carefully manage power for day. Not everyone has a spare charger for iPhone. Apple prioritise phone size/weight instead of battery life. If I could buy a bigger internal battery (maybe needs to replace back of phone too), I would. Carrying a power bank is too bulky. I lose backpacks, and dislike the other alternatives.
sekai 3y ago
> Unfortunately you'll find out it's not actually easy at all when you realize that consumers care about weight, size, temperature and battery life which are all things apple excels at. Their hardware is really quite good, unfortunately the software is horribly crippled. They really don't. iPhone is a status symbol, especially for the new up-and-coming consumers (teens)
multimoon 3y ago
This is how the free market is intended to work. This opens up the range for several android phones (which have a near split in the US, and a majority globally last I recall) to offer better hardware. Modern Samsung phones are very good. You’re asserting that Apple should be punished purely because they make good hardware and are successful - and if their hardware wasn’t good and competitive then you wouldn’t care. Part of why I have Apple devices as a tech enthusiast is the good software and the ecosystem that comes with it. Would I like to run an IDE and code on an iPad? Absolutely. But I’d rather have the iPad than the android tablet.
- aaomidi 3y ago
  The ecosystem doesn’t need to go away to be opened up. Honestly, I am approaching this from another standpoint. Tech has made it more palatable to have walled gardens but battles similar to this have been fought before and the walled gardens have fallen. I have two solutions for Apple here: 1. Either allow more open participation on your platform. 2. Allow other vendors to write OSes for the iPhone device if you don’t want to open your software. Without one of these two, the amount of ewaste we’re generating from this hardware is astonishing. I don’t think Apple the services, should dictate the OS running on Apple the hardware. At that point, you can run the ecosystem you want. I can choose to run Android, or Linux on this hardware. And before anyone brings up consoles: yes. This should also apply to consoles.
  - multimoon 3y ago
    You’ve just removed a massive financial incentive for making the kind of hardware Apple does. Their whole ‘thing’ is a unified experience between hardware and software. The entire premise of punishing a company for success when they haven’t violated any laws is insane to me, and I think dangerous to the market because you’ll stifle companies wanting to try new things for fear of someone attacking them for success. Antitrust means that the consumer has no choice - they do they can buy an android phone. Saying “you can’t use other software inside of apples hardware” is an irrelevant argument, since an alternative to that combination is available.
samatman 3y ago
"Easy" means there are no barriers to entry, not that it's trivial to make a good product. In particular, there are no barriers to entry imposed by Apple. For any product Apple sell, there are numerous competing products in the same category. Apple's versions uniformly dominate third party rankings of these products, but all that means is that they're good at what they do.

endisneigh 3y ago

The Pixel 8 pro has superior battery life and camera to the iPhone 15. And that’s to say nothing of OnePlus or Samsung.

globular-toast 3y ago
So in a free market you'd expect them to outcompete the iPhone, no? How do you explain the iPhone being dominant despite being inferior? Edit: in case of confusion, I'm asking this rhetorically in reply to someone who argues there is no monopoly...
- endisneigh 3y ago
  Marketing - android devices were notoriously janky in their beginning.
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    The vast majority of Android devices still are. You can buy an "Android" phone, use it until EOL (no OS updates), get a new "Android" phone and it's a 100% different experience UI-wise and even the buttons are in different places. Tinkerers love it, normal users just want a phone that works the same as the previous one.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- nkohari 3y ago
  The Apple ecosystem is part of what you're buying with an iPhone. As a consumer, I really like that I can buy a MacBook, an iPhone, and AirPods, and have them all work seamlessly together because they were designed to do so. I'm even willing to pay extra for each product to ensure that they work together in concert, as well as a subscription for a service (iCloud) that glues them all together.
- dutchCourage 3y ago
  Besides the fact that consumers aren't as rational as your question seems to imply, some of the reasons for the iPhone's dominance are the same reasons Apple are getting sued.
- kergonath 3y ago
  Because a phone is not just a battery and a camera?
beeboobaa3 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- AnarchismIsCool 3y ago
  I'll take all of that in exchange for open software and better performance. I'm so fucking tired of the "thinness wars".
  - beeboobaa3 3y ago
    So will I. That does not diminish the point of my previous comment. I'd still like to be able to run a quality, open, OS on Apple's hardware though.
    - mrkstu 3y ago
      Hardware that wouldn't exist without the high margins generated by their vertical integration.
      - AnarchismIsCool 3y ago
        If they posted the bootloader keys to Twitter right now it wouldn't lose them any money. Nobody is going to stop buying their shit because of that, but rather they might start selling more because now they can use the hardware for applications that would have been previously impossible. To put it differently, Skyrim would have died as a game within a few months of release if it didn't support mods, but instead they didn't try to restrict them and made a horrifying quantity of money as a result.
        mrkstu 3y ago
        That may be true now, but it doesn't debunk the point that the hardware that is now so desirable exists solely because of their vertical integration.
repler 3y ago
and how’s the data privacy?
- rpmisms 3y ago
  Fine, and if you want better, just install GrapheneOS.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
vundercind 3y ago
Real battery life, or marketing spec sheet battery life? One of the things that impressed me about Apple when I started using their products was that advertised battery life was usually within 10% of what I’d actually get. I was used to those being lies to the tune of 30-50% from other vendors (phone and laptop alike)
- robocat 3y ago
  iPhone SE battery life is shockingly poor versus the last 3 previous Androids I had which would last 2 days of light use. It's probably my number one gripe with the SE. It runs flat when I need it. One time 4 hours walk because couldn't call a taxi (_luckily_ I hitched ride with a dodgy drug dealer instead - battery life matters!). Or staying overnight and not charging so needing to carefully manage power for day. Not everyone has a spare charger for iPhone. Apple prioritise phone size/weight instead of battery life. If I could buy a bigger internal battery (maybe needs to replace back of phone too), I would. Carrying a power bank is too bulky. I lose backpacks, and dislike the other alternatives.

sekai 3y ago

> Unfortunately you'll find out it's not actually easy at all when you realize that consumers care about weight, size, temperature and battery life which are all things apple excels at. Their hardware is really quite good, unfortunately the software is horribly crippled. They really don't. iPhone is a status symbol, especially for the new up-and-coming consumers (teens)

multimoon 3y ago

This is how the free market is intended to work. This opens up the range for several android phones (which have a near split in the US, and a majority globally last I recall) to offer better hardware. Modern Samsung phones are very good. You’re asserting that Apple should be punished purely because they make good hardware and are successful - and if their hardware wasn’t good and competitive then you wouldn’t care. Part of why I have Apple devices as a tech enthusiast is the good software and the ecosystem that comes with it. Would I like to run an IDE and code on an iPad? Absolutely. But I’d rather have the iPad than the android tablet.

aaomidi 3y ago
The ecosystem doesn’t need to go away to be opened up. Honestly, I am approaching this from another standpoint. Tech has made it more palatable to have walled gardens but battles similar to this have been fought before and the walled gardens have fallen. I have two solutions for Apple here: 1. Either allow more open participation on your platform. 2. Allow other vendors to write OSes for the iPhone device if you don’t want to open your software. Without one of these two, the amount of ewaste we’re generating from this hardware is astonishing. I don’t think Apple the services, should dictate the OS running on Apple the hardware. At that point, you can run the ecosystem you want. I can choose to run Android, or Linux on this hardware. And before anyone brings up consoles: yes. This should also apply to consoles.
- multimoon 3y ago
  You’ve just removed a massive financial incentive for making the kind of hardware Apple does. Their whole ‘thing’ is a unified experience between hardware and software. The entire premise of punishing a company for success when they haven’t violated any laws is insane to me, and I think dangerous to the market because you’ll stifle companies wanting to try new things for fear of someone attacking them for success. Antitrust means that the consumer has no choice - they do they can buy an android phone. Saying “you can’t use other software inside of apples hardware” is an irrelevant argument, since an alternative to that combination is available.

samatman 3y ago

"Easy" means there are no barriers to entry, not that it's trivial to make a good product. In particular, there are no barriers to entry imposed by Apple. For any product Apple sell, there are numerous competing products in the same category. Apple's versions uniformly dominate third party rankings of these products, but all that means is that they're good at what they do.