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On the browser front, it’s easy. iPhones have batteries so battery life is a concern. That’s why Apple treats them differently than Macintosh computers, which y

On the browser front, it’s easy. iPhones have batteries so battery life is a concern. That’s why Apple treats them differently than Macintosh computers, which you can choose your own default browser engine for.

smoldesu 3y ago
That's a reason someone might prefer Apple's first-party browser, sure. How does it justify banning third-party browser engines though? Are we ruling out the possibility that competitive browsers could offer better battery performance, too?
- gnicholas 3y ago
  The argument would be that they didn’t want iPhone users, especially with early models, to end up choosing other engines that were much worse on battery life and that would hurt the image of the iPhone. Back then, there was no battery settings where you could see what was eating your battery. It was all opaque and could make people think the device had lousy battery life. And yeah, I think it’s unlikely someone could have made a more efficient browser than Apple since they didn’t give public access to all of their functionalities. And that might have been partly for security reasons, if there were less-secure aspects to hidden functions, for example. The counter-argument is that they should have opened everything up, but Apple will say they were going as fast as they could responsibly go, and that’s why there were limitations that have been relaxed over time.
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    That feels like an argument that could apply to bar any category of apps to compete with Apple ones on the phone. For instance giving a special placement to Apple Music and not allowing other apps to get the same privileges, because music playback needs to be efficient, and a bad music experience would hurt the iPhone's image. Same for movies, same for ebooks, same for spreadsheets (including needing to execute macros, so security risk is through the roof) I feel I could get paid by Apple to come up with excuses for each app they need any.
  - generj 3y ago
    The real justification for browser engine restrictions is not battery life but security. If you look at any iOS vulnerability reporting, Safari is a big weakness and often the source of zero day attacks. Browsers are hugely complex pieces of software with a lot of attack surface. A large part of Apple’s value proposition is being secure. It sounds like the new approach (in the EU only) that allows additional browser engines requires specific security measures to be taken. Rightly or wrongly device security is going to be a strong defense Apple has against some of these allegations.
    - apantel 3y ago
      Then by the same argument, it should be ok for Microsoft to prevent users from installing any other browser on Windows besides Edge because it could make that person’s device less secure… No, a user should be allowed to take the security risk of installing whatever they want on their computers. Security-conscious users will have clean phones, and ordinary users will have phones full of viruses like their computers. Let people choose.
beeboobaa3 3y ago
Why do you think that apple should get to make this choice for their users? If they are so concerned with not letting their users drain the battery if they wish, why do they allow games on their store?
- gnicholas 3y ago
  I’m not saying I think they should be able to, I’m saying this is unlikely to be proven as an antitrust violation under the Microsoft precedent.
- detourdog 3y ago
  The user is choosing the Apple ecosystem and is happy to make these rules. They allow games because some people like to spend their battery power on games.
  - beeboobaa3 3y ago
    The user is choosing an iphone because their friends have one. Do you actually think the average person thinks about these things before buying a phone? No. They are just told by apple "you don't get to do that" once they realize they want to try it. Remember, you (nor apple) are not their parent.
    - detourdog 3y ago
      Most of the things I see Apple stop developers from doing I'm grateful for. Most developers have really bad ideas.
      - beeboobaa3 3y ago
        Feel free to not install their apps. Or in the case of the EU, feel free to only install apps from the official marketplace. That is your choice. Other people should still be able to decide for themselves.
  - realusername 3y ago
gbear605 3y ago
Most Macs sold are Macbooks that also have batteries
- gnicholas 3y ago
  Battery life is more of a concern on mobile devices because if your phone dies you can't call 911, get an uber, navigate with maps, or message a friend. There's more reason to protect mobile batteries than laptop batteries.

smoldesu 3y ago

That's a reason someone might prefer Apple's first-party browser, sure. How does it justify banning third-party browser engines though? Are we ruling out the possibility that competitive browsers could offer better battery performance, too?

gnicholas 3y ago
The argument would be that they didn’t want iPhone users, especially with early models, to end up choosing other engines that were much worse on battery life and that would hurt the image of the iPhone. Back then, there was no battery settings where you could see what was eating your battery. It was all opaque and could make people think the device had lousy battery life. And yeah, I think it’s unlikely someone could have made a more efficient browser than Apple since they didn’t give public access to all of their functionalities. And that might have been partly for security reasons, if there were less-secure aspects to hidden functions, for example. The counter-argument is that they should have opened everything up, but Apple will say they were going as fast as they could responsibly go, and that’s why there were limitations that have been relaxed over time.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  That feels like an argument that could apply to bar any category of apps to compete with Apple ones on the phone. For instance giving a special placement to Apple Music and not allowing other apps to get the same privileges, because music playback needs to be efficient, and a bad music experience would hurt the iPhone's image. Same for movies, same for ebooks, same for spreadsheets (including needing to execute macros, so security risk is through the roof) I feel I could get paid by Apple to come up with excuses for each app they need any.
- generj 3y ago
  The real justification for browser engine restrictions is not battery life but security. If you look at any iOS vulnerability reporting, Safari is a big weakness and often the source of zero day attacks. Browsers are hugely complex pieces of software with a lot of attack surface. A large part of Apple’s value proposition is being secure. It sounds like the new approach (in the EU only) that allows additional browser engines requires specific security measures to be taken. Rightly or wrongly device security is going to be a strong defense Apple has against some of these allegations.
  - apantel 3y ago
    Then by the same argument, it should be ok for Microsoft to prevent users from installing any other browser on Windows besides Edge because it could make that person’s device less secure… No, a user should be allowed to take the security risk of installing whatever they want on their computers. Security-conscious users will have clean phones, and ordinary users will have phones full of viruses like their computers. Let people choose.

beeboobaa3 3y ago

Why do you think that apple should get to make this choice for their users? If they are so concerned with not letting their users drain the battery if they wish, why do they allow games on their store?

gnicholas 3y ago
I’m not saying I think they should be able to, I’m saying this is unlikely to be proven as an antitrust violation under the Microsoft precedent.
detourdog 3y ago
The user is choosing the Apple ecosystem and is happy to make these rules. They allow games because some people like to spend their battery power on games.
- beeboobaa3 3y ago
  The user is choosing an iphone because their friends have one. Do you actually think the average person thinks about these things before buying a phone? No. They are just told by apple "you don't get to do that" once they realize they want to try it. Remember, you (nor apple) are not their parent.
  - detourdog 3y ago
    Most of the things I see Apple stop developers from doing I'm grateful for. Most developers have really bad ideas.
    - beeboobaa3 3y ago
      Feel free to not install their apps. Or in the case of the EU, feel free to only install apps from the official marketplace. That is your choice. Other people should still be able to decide for themselves.
- realusername 3y ago

gbear605 3y ago

Most Macs sold are Macbooks that also have batteries

gnicholas 3y ago
Battery life is more of a concern on mobile devices because if your phone dies you can't call 911, get an uber, navigate with maps, or message a friend. There's more reason to protect mobile batteries than laptop batteries.