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Demonstration is a human right. In Germany we have had people who glued their hands onto the Autobahn, big streets in cities and wherever. No one came to the id

Demonstration is a human right. In Germany we have had people who glued their hands onto the Autobahn, big streets in cities and wherever. No one came to the idea of using water cannons. We have a lot of such actions in here. The only time bad thing happened in the last 15 years was using a water cannon on a very big group demonstrating against the "new" (its old when its finished) train station. I think, when someone is demonstrating, other should hear what is the reason for, not shoot water on them. No matter it's a camp, glued onto or big demonstrations - there is a reason for this.

gruez 3y ago
>Demonstration is a human right 1. if you read my previous comment more carefully, my objection isn't against the fact that they're demonstrating at all, it's that the account you gave was very one-sided. It's possible to be for "Demonstration is a human right" but still acknowledge what exact activities they're engaging in and not rounding it off to just "demonstrating". Failing to do so is disingenuous and kills your credibility, ultimately hurting the cause you're trying to advocate for. 2. "Demonstration" might be a "human right", but it has limits. As (presumably) a German, you should know this given how many restrictions you have on free speech[1], another "human right". There's presumably complicated statutory and case law that determines exactly what constitutes as protected "demonstration", but I doubt that "unilaterally blocking a construction project that's already approved, by setting up an encampment" counts. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#G...
- theGeatZhopa 3y ago
  Of course there are rules. I think I read your comment carefully enough to make a statement, what I did. The people are demonstrating here before approval, after approval and even while the construction. It's all possible and is covered by our law. Actually: Tesla wants to extend its plant. The people living around that plant decided "no!" (Which I personally do not understand). There is a forest of monoculture trees beside that - the demonstrators have built tree houses and living now in it. They want to fight (and often did that already..). Extension of the plant is approved too.. The digging up of brown coal - the same. Here, it took like felt 5 years to remove all the demonstrators.. The pipelines, the power lines , the renewal wind energy generators - the people are demonstrating against all all the time. And it's approved too.. sometimes the projects are changed because of that, sometimes the police must regulate... But in the end, shot by water cannon is only possible if there is violance going of the demonstrators. If there's a possible solution for a change in project, then often the change is done. As I said. Demonstration is a human right and is also being written under the basic rights :) If you think, just because something got approved and because of this there shouldn't be any demonstrations or blocking anymore - I'll wait for the day a highway is built behind your house and then I remind you of your comment :) Peace.
  - gruez 3y ago
    >But in the end, shot by water cannon is only possible if there is violance going of the demonstrators. If there's a possible solution for a change in project, then often the change is done. As I said. Demonstration is a human right and is also being written under the basic rights :) Are you saying that demonstrations should always be allowed as long as there's no "violence", even if it's interfering with other people's activities (eg. in the middle of a construction site)?. I'm pretty sure that's not how it works anywhere, because that basically allows anyone to veto any sort of activity by "protesting". That said I'm not an expert on American or German law so feel free to prove me wrong. :) >If you think, just because something got approved and because of this there shouldn't be any demonstrations or blocking anymore - I'll wait for the day a highway is built behind your house and then I remind you of your comment :) If you think, just because people have the right to protest and because of this you can't do anything about "protesters" - I'll wait for the day protesters decide to "protest" inside your house and then I remind you of your comment :)
    - theGeatZhopa 3y ago
      Basically yes.. https://www.dw.com/en/freedom-of-assembly-in-germany-protected-but-regulated/a-39630488 https://www.dw.com/en/freedom-of-assembly-in-germany-protect... Privately owned houses, flats or other privately owned properties can't be entered without permission. The demonstrators can start a demonstration in my garden, yes, but the police will help here. And, no one would even think of doing so, because everyone knows thats illegal. This is different with companies. You can't enter, but you can block their parking space or demonstrate in front the maintenance. They can call the police, but they're can't do anything about that - public ground. Just remember the "occupy" movement that camped in front of banks in Frankfurt, Germany, and made it nearly impossible for the guys working there to enter their workplace. This restrictions of private property applies Without exception for every one, and for the police or other state organs like intelligence or ambulances. If, then, only a search warrant issued by a judge, who is bound to certain laws or on your invitation can enable them to enter without your ok.. and even that can be stopped by a lawyer. If it was unlawful, then everything they found must be given back or deleted. That's the way love goes - love for the rights of a single person. Nothing is more important so it is written in the basic law. So yes. I'll wait until the day you'll have a highway in your backyard :) and then I ask you, why didn't you demonstrate?
wara23arish 3y ago
From what i know germany has banned plenty of pro palestinian protests. Doing security checks on men that look arab on the streets. Banning the palestinian flag.
- theGeatZhopa 3y ago
  You do not take into account that a demonstration must be peaceful and is not for spreading hate and violence. If it's not, then it may be forbidden to even start. But Each one is free to call up a court after a 'not allowed'. Often, the decision to forbid is Undone by law ruling. Each demonstration must be registered with guys who is responsible, with a plan how to sustain the public peace and everything around that. Of course, spontaneous demonstrations are possible too. If you're more than one, you can just sit on the street and say "demonstration". You also can gather in some point - but it must be spontaneous. If it's planned, then there are rules to adhere to. The ones which has been forbidden have been organized by Islamic organizations which are under observation by themselves - not because they're arabic, but because they are against the german laws and postulate sharia and the things like depression of woman and so on.. Germany is a free state of a lot of people from different cultures. No sharia, no hate against woman, no nothing, but peaceful living alongside each other. Pro Palestine demos here had a special taste. The guys who decide if ok or not ok look for the dangerousness: The pro Palestine demonstrators (mostly Arabic) called death to all Jews. They raised ISIS flags, had been aggressive to bypassers and the police. Some guys participating beaten up german Jews, the kids if such believes are getting more violent in the school to other kids, like it's haram for girls to speak to boys and if you're Jewish - one have fear beaten up to death. The synagogues in here has been attacked that much they needed help by the police. I'm not an Jew or Arabic, but I, too, say: NO! That's not a demonstration covered by the rules. That's pure hate and violence. There's no place in Germany for that. We're not in Palestina or other states where such is possible. We're a country where everyone try to come along and to live peacefully with each other. So, if you like to demonstrate pro Palestina - be peaceful. Than it's not a problem. Like the other not forbidden pro Palestina demonstrations show :)
  - wara23arish 3y ago
    I have seen plenty of german news falsely attributing arabic phrases as isis chants/flags etc.. It’s happening out in the open. Orientalism is still alive and thriving. Calling for israel to stop its genocide is considered hate speech in germany. Even calling israel an apartheid state is. I say No to the constant arming of israel that has killed +10K children. The people protesting dont care about whether israel is jewish or not fyi. The guilt stems from Germany’s atrocities in ww2 and it seems you’re projecting your own insecurities/guilt onto arabs. Its sadly ironic cause germany is a big reason we’re in this mess :)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
blackhawkC17 3y ago
> I think, when someone is demonstrating, other should hear what is the reason for, not shoot water on them. No matter it's a camp, glued onto or big demonstrations - there is a reason for this. Some protest reasons are silly. Not everyone deserves to be heard.
- mjhay 3y ago
  Worries about pipeline leaks and climate change are not silly.
- theGeatZhopa 3y ago
  What's not important for you might be important for me. Who should decide? You or me? Just let everyone be able to say something and to be heard. If it's silly, then it's up to discussion - everything other is suppressing opinions. Which is forbidden by law.

gruez 3y ago

>Demonstration is a human right 1. if you read my previous comment more carefully, my objection isn't against the fact that they're demonstrating at all, it's that the account you gave was very one-sided. It's possible to be for "Demonstration is a human right" but still acknowledge what exact activities they're engaging in and not rounding it off to just "demonstrating". Failing to do so is disingenuous and kills your credibility, ultimately hurting the cause you're trying to advocate for. 2. "Demonstration" might be a "human right", but it has limits. As (presumably) a German, you should know this given how many restrictions you have on free speech[1], another "human right". There's presumably complicated statutory and case law that determines exactly what constitutes as protected "demonstration", but I doubt that "unilaterally blocking a construction project that's already approved, by setting up an encampment" counts. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#G...

theGeatZhopa 3y ago
Of course there are rules. I think I read your comment carefully enough to make a statement, what I did. The people are demonstrating here before approval, after approval and even while the construction. It's all possible and is covered by our law. Actually: Tesla wants to extend its plant. The people living around that plant decided "no!" (Which I personally do not understand). There is a forest of monoculture trees beside that - the demonstrators have built tree houses and living now in it. They want to fight (and often did that already..). Extension of the plant is approved too.. The digging up of brown coal - the same. Here, it took like felt 5 years to remove all the demonstrators.. The pipelines, the power lines , the renewal wind energy generators - the people are demonstrating against all all the time. And it's approved too.. sometimes the projects are changed because of that, sometimes the police must regulate... But in the end, shot by water cannon is only possible if there is violance going of the demonstrators. If there's a possible solution for a change in project, then often the change is done. As I said. Demonstration is a human right and is also being written under the basic rights :) If you think, just because something got approved and because of this there shouldn't be any demonstrations or blocking anymore - I'll wait for the day a highway is built behind your house and then I remind you of your comment :) Peace.
- gruez 3y ago
  >But in the end, shot by water cannon is only possible if there is violance going of the demonstrators. If there's a possible solution for a change in project, then often the change is done. As I said. Demonstration is a human right and is also being written under the basic rights :) Are you saying that demonstrations should always be allowed as long as there's no "violence", even if it's interfering with other people's activities (eg. in the middle of a construction site)?. I'm pretty sure that's not how it works anywhere, because that basically allows anyone to veto any sort of activity by "protesting". That said I'm not an expert on American or German law so feel free to prove me wrong. :) >If you think, just because something got approved and because of this there shouldn't be any demonstrations or blocking anymore - I'll wait for the day a highway is built behind your house and then I remind you of your comment :) If you think, just because people have the right to protest and because of this you can't do anything about "protesters" - I'll wait for the day protesters decide to "protest" inside your house and then I remind you of your comment :)
  - theGeatZhopa 3y ago
    Basically yes.. https://www.dw.com/en/freedom-of-assembly-in-germany-protected-but-regulated/a-39630488 https://www.dw.com/en/freedom-of-assembly-in-germany-protect... Privately owned houses, flats or other privately owned properties can't be entered without permission. The demonstrators can start a demonstration in my garden, yes, but the police will help here. And, no one would even think of doing so, because everyone knows thats illegal. This is different with companies. You can't enter, but you can block their parking space or demonstrate in front the maintenance. They can call the police, but they're can't do anything about that - public ground. Just remember the "occupy" movement that camped in front of banks in Frankfurt, Germany, and made it nearly impossible for the guys working there to enter their workplace. This restrictions of private property applies Without exception for every one, and for the police or other state organs like intelligence or ambulances. If, then, only a search warrant issued by a judge, who is bound to certain laws or on your invitation can enable them to enter without your ok.. and even that can be stopped by a lawyer. If it was unlawful, then everything they found must be given back or deleted. That's the way love goes - love for the rights of a single person. Nothing is more important so it is written in the basic law. So yes. I'll wait until the day you'll have a highway in your backyard :) and then I ask you, why didn't you demonstrate?

wara23arish 3y ago

From what i know germany has banned plenty of pro palestinian protests. Doing security checks on men that look arab on the streets. Banning the palestinian flag.

theGeatZhopa 3y ago
You do not take into account that a demonstration must be peaceful and is not for spreading hate and violence. If it's not, then it may be forbidden to even start. But Each one is free to call up a court after a 'not allowed'. Often, the decision to forbid is Undone by law ruling. Each demonstration must be registered with guys who is responsible, with a plan how to sustain the public peace and everything around that. Of course, spontaneous demonstrations are possible too. If you're more than one, you can just sit on the street and say "demonstration". You also can gather in some point - but it must be spontaneous. If it's planned, then there are rules to adhere to. The ones which has been forbidden have been organized by Islamic organizations which are under observation by themselves - not because they're arabic, but because they are against the german laws and postulate sharia and the things like depression of woman and so on.. Germany is a free state of a lot of people from different cultures. No sharia, no hate against woman, no nothing, but peaceful living alongside each other. Pro Palestine demos here had a special taste. The guys who decide if ok or not ok look for the dangerousness: The pro Palestine demonstrators (mostly Arabic) called death to all Jews. They raised ISIS flags, had been aggressive to bypassers and the police. Some guys participating beaten up german Jews, the kids if such believes are getting more violent in the school to other kids, like it's haram for girls to speak to boys and if you're Jewish - one have fear beaten up to death. The synagogues in here has been attacked that much they needed help by the police. I'm not an Jew or Arabic, but I, too, say: NO! That's not a demonstration covered by the rules. That's pure hate and violence. There's no place in Germany for that. We're not in Palestina or other states where such is possible. We're a country where everyone try to come along and to live peacefully with each other. So, if you like to demonstrate pro Palestina - be peaceful. Than it's not a problem. Like the other not forbidden pro Palestina demonstrations show :)
- wara23arish 3y ago
  I have seen plenty of german news falsely attributing arabic phrases as isis chants/flags etc.. It’s happening out in the open. Orientalism is still alive and thriving. Calling for israel to stop its genocide is considered hate speech in germany. Even calling israel an apartheid state is. I say No to the constant arming of israel that has killed +10K children. The people protesting dont care about whether israel is jewish or not fyi. The guilt stems from Germany’s atrocities in ww2 and it seems you’re projecting your own insecurities/guilt onto arabs. Its sadly ironic cause germany is a big reason we’re in this mess :)

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

blackhawkC17 3y ago

> I think, when someone is demonstrating, other should hear what is the reason for, not shoot water on them. No matter it's a camp, glued onto or big demonstrations - there is a reason for this. Some protest reasons are silly. Not everyone deserves to be heard.

mjhay 3y ago
Worries about pipeline leaks and climate change are not silly.
theGeatZhopa 3y ago
What's not important for you might be important for me. Who should decide? You or me? Just let everyone be able to say something and to be heard. If it's silly, then it's up to discussion - everything other is suppressing opinions. Which is forbidden by law.