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Look at the former careers of the leadership of this church. * Russel Nelson - Former surgeon, known for performing the first open heart surgery west of the Mi

Look at the former careers of the leadership of this church. * Russel Nelson - Former surgeon, known for performing the first open heart surgery west of the Mississippi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_M._Nelson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_M._Nelson) * Henry Eyring - Former Stanford professor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_B._Eyring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_B._Eyring) * Dallin Oaks - Former Lawyer, Judge, and University of Chicago professor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallin_H._Oaks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallin_H._Oaks) There are 12 others you can dig into as well, most of which are very highly educated (Elder Gong, who is mentioned in the article, is one of these 12): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorum_of_the_Twelve_Apostles_(LDS_Church) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorum_of_the_Twelve_Apostles_...

sandspar 3y ago
In the states surrounding Utah, you'll often find that the best lawyers and dentists and people like that are Mormon.
bedobi 3y ago
OK? Is this meant to somehow absolve mormonism's long and well documented record of being an abusive cult? (which the "leaders" are ultimately in no small part responsible for?)
- nabla9 3y ago
  You can admire them for their competence. Mormons are spiritually pure amoral capitalists. Religion united with wealth and politics. A Perfect American Religion.
- lukan 3y ago
  No, it was just stating the fact that they seem to have technical expertise.
- camhart 3y ago
  It was a response to the following: > Strange place for principled thought leadership to come from
- lcall 3y ago
  Abusive is very far from my personal experience. It is the best influence in my and my extended family's life. Generally, it seems like those who are most happy and most educated are usually the most active. It takes a lot of work to build something that lasts across the generations. We are taught service to others, forgiveness, and kindness. It has brought me and my wife peace and a sense of security despite health and others of life's expected challenges. There is more at my web site (in profile, tech-simple, nothing for sale).
nabla9 3y ago
Money&Power is attraction for smart and educated people to get deep into internal power struggles of the Church. The Church has $265 billion in assets. Their power and influence goes way beyond that. The Ensign Peak portfolio alone is over $50 billion and they vote in board meetings. They suck money from their members with annual tithing, but they are now so wealthy that the overall church’s investment income now exceeds that (they give only tiny fraction of their income to humanitarian work) LDS is a religion as a business.
- camhart 3y ago
  I get the sense you have some anger towards the faith, so I hesitate to respond. I'm not trying to argue with you. But I do want to address your points at least from my perspective. > Money&Power is attraction The leaders receive an annual "living expense" stipend. It's not publicly available, but there have been data leaks. The last data leak puts it at $130k in 2014 (estimated to be $178k in 2024). See https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/comp/ https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/comp/. While this is a decent amount of money, given the educational/business success of most of the leadership it's likely less than most would have made had they not given up their career. Does that justify it? That's up to each person to decide. But given that there are ~17 million members of the faith, and 117 people receive the stipend, I think there are more lucrative approaches for making money. To be clear there are other paid employees of the Church too, though no local clergy are paid. If you walk into a typical church meeting on Sunday not a single person there is being paid. The employees work in IT/accounting/etc type roles that a large organization would have. > The Church has $265 billion in assets. Their power and influence goes way beyond that. The Ensign Peak portfolio alone is over $50 billion and they vote in board meetings. Investing is a good thing. It's what creates more/better jobs. Why shouldn't the investment managers vote in board meetings? They're acting as a wise investor by doing so. > They suck money from their members with annual tithing Members willingly donate as an act of faith. There isn't a bowl/hat or anything passed around. Donations are made predominantly online now too. > they give only tiny fraction of their income to humanitarian work I would like to see overall humanitarian aid increased, and from what I understand that is the goal. For context though, they donated > $1 billion in 2022. And this doesn't account for the countless hours members volunteer for free. The money alone is more than what's donated by every country on the earth aside from USA and Germany. See https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/2022-annual-report-caring-for-those-in-need https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/2022-annual... and https://www.statista.com/statistics/275597/largers-donor-countries-of-aid-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/275597/largers-donor-cou....

sandspar 3y ago

In the states surrounding Utah, you'll often find that the best lawyers and dentists and people like that are Mormon.

bedobi 3y ago

OK? Is this meant to somehow absolve mormonism's long and well documented record of being an abusive cult? (which the "leaders" are ultimately in no small part responsible for?)

nabla9 3y ago
You can admire them for their competence. Mormons are spiritually pure amoral capitalists. Religion united with wealth and politics. A Perfect American Religion.
lukan 3y ago
No, it was just stating the fact that they seem to have technical expertise.
camhart 3y ago
It was a response to the following: > Strange place for principled thought leadership to come from
lcall 3y ago
Abusive is very far from my personal experience. It is the best influence in my and my extended family's life. Generally, it seems like those who are most happy and most educated are usually the most active. It takes a lot of work to build something that lasts across the generations. We are taught service to others, forgiveness, and kindness. It has brought me and my wife peace and a sense of security despite health and others of life's expected challenges. There is more at my web site (in profile, tech-simple, nothing for sale).

nabla9 3y ago

Money&Power is attraction for smart and educated people to get deep into internal power struggles of the Church. The Church has $265 billion in assets. Their power and influence goes way beyond that. The Ensign Peak portfolio alone is over $50 billion and they vote in board meetings. They suck money from their members with annual tithing, but they are now so wealthy that the overall church’s investment income now exceeds that (they give only tiny fraction of their income to humanitarian work) LDS is a religion as a business.

camhart 3y ago
I get the sense you have some anger towards the faith, so I hesitate to respond. I'm not trying to argue with you. But I do want to address your points at least from my perspective. > Money&Power is attraction The leaders receive an annual "living expense" stipend. It's not publicly available, but there have been data leaks. The last data leak puts it at $130k in 2014 (estimated to be $178k in 2024). See https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/comp/ https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/comp/. While this is a decent amount of money, given the educational/business success of most of the leadership it's likely less than most would have made had they not given up their career. Does that justify it? That's up to each person to decide. But given that there are ~17 million members of the faith, and 117 people receive the stipend, I think there are more lucrative approaches for making money. To be clear there are other paid employees of the Church too, though no local clergy are paid. If you walk into a typical church meeting on Sunday not a single person there is being paid. The employees work in IT/accounting/etc type roles that a large organization would have. > The Church has $265 billion in assets. Their power and influence goes way beyond that. The Ensign Peak portfolio alone is over $50 billion and they vote in board meetings. Investing is a good thing. It's what creates more/better jobs. Why shouldn't the investment managers vote in board meetings? They're acting as a wise investor by doing so. > They suck money from their members with annual tithing Members willingly donate as an act of faith. There isn't a bowl/hat or anything passed around. Donations are made predominantly online now too. > they give only tiny fraction of their income to humanitarian work I would like to see overall humanitarian aid increased, and from what I understand that is the goal. For context though, they donated > $1 billion in 2022. And this doesn't account for the countless hours members volunteer for free. The money alone is more than what's donated by every country on the earth aside from USA and Germany. See https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/2022-annual-report-caring-for-those-in-need https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/2022-annual... and https://www.statista.com/statistics/275597/largers-donor-countries-of-aid-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/275597/largers-donor-cou....