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Why didn't we make a mass manufactured consumer product before the Industrial Revolution? * The Industrial Revolution increased the number of people with dispo

• gabesullice 3y ago
  > the latest hype cycle I see what you did there
• ctrw 3y ago
  Yes imagine how well a cast iron bike would handle. Or a wooden one. There is a reason why even steel is not used any more in bike frames.
  • soperj 3y ago
    Steel is literally the most common used material in bike frames.
    • bagels 3y ago
      In the US aluminum is more common than steel for new frames now.
      • ffsm8 3y ago
        Same in Europe. Steel has increasingly been phased out starting sometime around 2010, so almost 15 yrs ago now. Even budget bikes (~200-300€ new) are generally aluminum now.
        • xattt 3y ago
          Cheap bikes in Canada are still steel-framed.
        • wkat4242 3y ago
          Not in Holland, everyday bikes are still steel because they're just that much stronger. Especially women's bikes because they support the frame only from the bottom.
    • Freedom2 3y ago
      Source on that? Most bikes I've seen are made with aluminum these days.
      • paganel 3y ago
        That mostly says something about the socio-economic status of the people commenting in here, going to any big Walmart-like store in the Western world most of the bikes for sale there are still made of steel, not of aluminium or other light materials. I'm talking about basic bicycles like this one [1] (I had one from the same bike manufactured), they're made out of steel. [1] https://www.emag.ro/bicicleta-oras-dhs-citadinne-2812-28-inch-l-negru-22128125060bp/pd/DBHDSHBBM/ https://www.emag.ro/bicicleta-oras-dhs-citadinne-2812-28-inc...
        • kqr 3y ago
          How certain are you that bike is made of steel? That sort of flat and fat tubing is typical of aluminium, since it is a weaker material than steel in terms of cross-sectional area.
          • krisoft 3y ago
            The datasheet says it is made of steel. Material cadru Otel Material furca Otel Material spite Inox
          • deleted 3y ago
            [deleted]
          • discreteevent 3y ago
            They have been shaping cheap steel bikes like that for years to make them look like aluminum. Some of the buyers aren't even looking for an aluminum bike, they just want a 'bicycle' that looks modern. It's a pity because it means the bike is much heavier than it would be if it had nice slim steel tubes.
            • kqr 3y ago
  • NegativeLatency 3y ago
    Steel is a great material for bike frames. Cheap, strong, fairly light when in tubular form. Now if you’re trying to save every last ounce and someone else is paying for the bike, sure go carbon, but the vast majority of people are not even at the fitness level to really “need” a carbon bike.
    • ch_sm 3y ago
      Agree! My current racing bike uses chromoly steel, which is somewhat stiffer and stronger than regular steel, so they can make the tubes thinner. I can attest it’s very light as a result. Maybe not as light as a modern Aluminum frame, but still, very very light, and I guess more durable.
    • fsckboy 3y ago
      >not even at the fitness level to really “need” a carbon bike just want to point out that a high fitness level allows you to get more out of heavy bicycles. Any couch potato prefers carbon.
  • Ma8ee 3y ago
    Steel is very common, and there are many bicycles made mostly of wood (while not particularly common today).
    • euroderf 3y ago
      Bamboo too !
      • more_corn 3y ago
        There’s a bamboo bike building workshop in San Francisco. You see people on these bikes now and then.
  • domh 3y ago
    It's my understanding that steel is one of the more repairable metals? Aluminium and carbon fibre can't be welded as easily (in the case of aluminium) or at all (in the case of carbon fibre). Steel framed bicycles are good enough for the vast majority. I fear bike manufacturers are switching to less repairable materials and proprietary parts to increase profits.
    • petre 3y ago
      Yes, steel, especially non heat treated 4130 crhomoly is repairable at just about any metal working shop. That's why it's the choice of bicycle tourers and custom frame builders. Also a steel frame is very dependable, bicycle enthusiasts usually rebuild thier steel frame a couple of times during its lifetime. Last year I bought a lugged steel road bike frame that has the same age as myself and build up with a mix of vintage and contemporary components with vintage looks. Alloy, titanium and carbon fiber are lighter and that's what most consumers want, having watched Tour de France and bicycle industry marketing materials. Big brands facing increased competition from Asia started to put carbon frames of questionable quality on the market, so if you want an okay bike you are best served by alloy, because they're mass produced and the process is quite optimized and well understood. Titanium is basically unrepairable without special tooling and know how and it feels basically the same as alloy. It's stronger and more corrosion resistant. The bike industry also puts a lot of new or proprietary standards on the market, especially when it comes to bottom backets. Other new standards include different fork spacing, head tube diameters, rear suspension couplers, proprietary frame integrated suspension and more recently integrated e-bike batteries. The worst offensers are Cannondale, Specialized, Trek and Cervelo. If you want a bike with sensible standards you want a BSA threaded bottom bracket if it's a metal frame or BB86/92 press fit if it's a carbon frame, a fork with a 1 1/8" steerer or tappered from 1 1/8" to 1 1/2" steerer if it's a mountain bike or a high end road bike, a 34 mm or a 44 mm head tube, 135 mm O.L.D. rear and 100 mm front fork spacing for quick release skewers or 148 mm/110 mm boost spacing if it's a newer mountain bike or 142 mm/100 mm spacing if it's a newer road bike with thru axles, a seat post diameter of 27.2 if it's a road bike or 31.6 mm if it's a newer mountian bike. For brake mounts I prefer IS brake mounts because they're robust, don't have threads to cross thread and misalignment issues are not common, but modern road bikes come with the flat mount (FM) standard and newer alloy MTBs come with post mount (PM). What you probably don't want is a mountain bike with flat mount brakes, funny axle standards, direct derailleur mounts, integrated seat posts, integrated cockpits, full internal routing, lefty forks, integrated frame suspension and so on.
  • gambiting 3y ago
    My grandma had a wooden bike that she rode to school, that was back in the 1950s Poland.
  • bigfudge 3y ago
    Steel is less common, but not really for performance reasons. There are plenty of lovely steel bikes, and they are more durable and just as light. Feel is also nicer (although this slightly more subjective). Ali is just cheaper to manufacture.
    • Lio 3y ago
      There are plenty of lovely steel bikes but steel is definitely less common for performance reasons. It's neither more durable or lighter than frames made of aluminium, titanium or carbon fibre. For example, a typical frame made of steel will generally be about 1kg heavier than one made of carbon. The forks will 500g heavier. If you scratch or chip the paint steel will corrode. The claims that steel (or titanium) "feels" better than aluminium or carbon fibre have been thoroughly debunked. The Young's Modulus of steel tubes used in bike frames ends up almost exactly the same as aluminium or titanium and steel has no "magic" vibration absorbing qualities. Carbon fibre is the only frame material with any real vibration damping and even that is massively over-hyped compared to an actual shock absorber or even bigger tyres. If you want to choose a steel frame then it should be because you like the look, it's easy to weld, uses less energy to make or it's cheaper.
      • isthatafact 3y ago
        > "The claims that steel (or titanium) "feels" better than aluminium or carbon fibre have been thoroughly debunked." Have they? Do you have support for that statement? Why is it so implausible that different materials might feel different? I did a (non-blind) comparison of steel versus carbon fiber, and they felt very different to me. They also certainly sound wildly different if you just tap your finger on steel frame versus a carbon fiber frame, so a different "feel" that corresponds to higher frequency vibrations seems plausible.
        • Mawr 3y ago
          > I did a (non-blind) comparison of steel versus carbon fiber, and they felt very different to me. Meaning, you switched out the frame on a bike from steel to carbon, keeping everything else, and felt a difference?
  • comprev 3y ago
    All my bikes are steel because I've cracked & snapped numerous frames over the years from riding them too hard. During my racing years (2005-2015) at least one rider would crack their frame at each race weekend!
• sl-1 3y ago
  Also, not enough standardization of measurements to make interchangeability to work. And another point is that shipping used to be too costly over anything but water --> whole production chain had to be quite localized.
  • throw0101b 3y ago
    > Also, not enough standardization of measurements to make interchangeability to work. A good book on increasing precision in history, The Perfectionists: How Precision Engineers Created the Modern World: > The rise of manufacturing could not have happened without an attention to precision. At the dawn of the Industrial Revolution in eighteenth-century England, standards of measurement were established, giving way to the development of machine tools—machines that make machines. Eventually, the application of precision tools and methods resulted in the creation and mass production of items from guns and glass to mirrors, lenses, and cameras—and eventually gave way to further breakthroughs, including gene splicing, microchips, and the Hadron Collider. > Simon Winchester takes us back to origins of the Industrial Age, to England where he introduces the scientific minds that helped usher in modern production: John Wilkinson, Henry Maudslay, Joseph Bramah, Jesse Ramsden, and Joseph Whitworth. It was Thomas Jefferson who later exported their discoveries to the fledgling United States, setting the nation on its course to become a manufacturing titan. Winchester moves forward through time, to today’s cutting-edge developments occurring around the world, from America to Western Europe to Asia. > As he introduces the minds and methods that have changed the modern world, Winchester explores fundamental questions. Why is precision important? What are the different tools we use to measure it? Who has invented and perfected it? Has the pursuit of the ultra-precise in so many facets of human life blinded us to other things of equal value, such as an appreciation for the age-old traditions of craftsmanship, art, and high culture? Are we missing something that reflects the world as it is, rather than the world as we think we would wish it to be? And can the precise and the natural co-exist in society * https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/35068671 https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/35068671
• AniseAbyss 3y ago
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• rsynnott 3y ago
  I think the point is that we didn't make it for a _long_ time after the Industrial Revolution. The "safety bikes" mentioned in the article, the first really practical bikes, only really took off in _1890_.
  • wolfram74 3y ago
    I've recently visited the aerospace smithsonian and they had an exhibit on the wright brothers. I'd known about their prior careers as bicycle makers and repairers, but the thing that really grabbed my attention was the price. For a single speed, bare bones tube design they were charging (when adjusted for inflation) around 1500 dollars. Now a comparable bike costs maybe a 10th that.
    • bluGill 3y ago
      A good bike today costs about half or maybe a third that, not a 10th. You can buy bikes for a 10th (many do), but they are low quality bikes that are 10th the price, but the quality is lacking. If you want a bike made by hand the way the wright brothers did it would be far more than that price (but the only people doing that are serious racers who demand much high quality and other custom things so I'm not sure this is fair)
      • wolfram74 3y ago
        I said a /comparable/ bike, single speed, steel tubing, medium precision chaining and teeth on the gear. A similar price will get you a wildly superior bike the likes of which was well beyond their craft, quite serviceable pedal assist bikes are selling for under a thousand these days.
    • downut 3y ago
      Essentially handmade bikes cost 2-5x more than $1500 now. $150 will buy you a Wallmart piece of junk. A utility bike suitable for bombing around a city is going to cost somewhere around $1000. I own three that each have a > $2K replacement cost, even with me building the wheels and installing everything but the bottom bracket. Yep you can easily spend more than $1500 for a single speed bare bones bike, and the people that build them have waiting lists years long.