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Canada’s problems are almost entirely from their refusal to curb real estate speculation and build housing people can afford. This is also a fairly new problem,

Canada’s problems are almost entirely from their refusal to curb real estate speculation and build housing people can afford. This is also a fairly new problem, so that it’s painted as intractable seems bizarre. I would also add that most of Canada’s problems with real estate speculation have made their way south of the border, where things are only about 30% less bad.

ipaddr 3y ago
Canada's problem is much bigger than real estate. Adding 3%+ of your population yearly drives down wages and increases housing costs. Canada not building enough housing to support that influx is only part of the problem.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Why do you say "3%+"? Googling "Canada population annual growth rate" brings up a chart that shows an annual growth rate that never exceeds 1.5% over the past 30 years. Canada's growth rate was significantly higher that the US from 2016-2020, but otherwise doesn't really look that different.
  - slily 3y ago
    This was in the news for a bit: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230927/dq230927a-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230927/dq230... (+2.9%). These immigration statistics make it clear: https://www.statista.com/statistics/443063/number-of-immigrants-in-canada/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/443063/number-of-immigra... This started after Trudeau was re-elected for the second time, but he has been consistent in calling for increased immigration. I guess he expected it to be his last term and decided to go all out. Of course, considering the timing (housing crisis and stagflation) that's a bad look.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
100%. The problem with housing that's so expensive that it's out of reach is that it completely reinforces the idea that "it doesn't matter how hard you work, I'll never be able to afford a decent place to live", and once large swaths of the population give up on the idea that hard work is rewarded, very bad things tend to happen. People lose faith in institutions, they blame everything as "corrupt", and they're not exactly wrong. It becomes a world of haves vs. have-nots where what defines a "have" is that you, or a parent, already owns a home in a semi-desirable area or better.
osigurdson 3y ago
The only way to curb real estate speculation is to make the investment much less attractive. Do this by building like mad, cut down trees and get it done. If you don't like cutting down trees, you don't like immigration.
- randomdata 3y ago
  > Do this by building like mad By whom? Things aren't quite so bad now that higher interest rates has scared many people away from building, but prior to that contractors were booked up years in advance. There was nobody else to build more than what we were already building. Sure, the old adage of "just pay the workers more" might work to attract more workers into home construction, but then the cost of housing needs to go up to pay them...
  - osigurdson 3y ago
    Can't some of the immigration include people that know how to build houses?
    - randomdata 3y ago
      If you have the wherewithal to be able to build a house, you can do any job out there. So, without a compelling offer, why work in construction? Everyone and their brother will happily hire you to do something else. Perhaps the government could be more heavy-handed, only allowing immigrants into the country under force of building houses, but that goes against Canadian culture, not to mention that other industries who rely on immigrant labour would cry fowl and the Canadians working in construction will feel attacked. Not going to happen. The only real way around it is to see Canada's job market crumble. When building homes is the only work available, then you'll see people begging for those types of jobs (Canadian citizens included). But when there is work elsewhere, most people are going to go elsewhere. Building homes is not exactly compelling work – at least not at the going rate.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
snapplebobapple 3y ago
Thats not really true. We do have a governmwnt regulation problem but it is mostly local. I live in a city that is routinely top 3 for ease of building and even here i am looking at a month or two for the city to get the review process started on my new garage build. The best is a disaster here, the worst is unforgiveable. What we need is provinces stuffing much relaxed regulation down city's throats and forcing service times measured in days and weeks not months and years. Something that would solve this would look like cutting residential zones down to two max and have the lowest approved for anything from single family to six story multifamily and the second being bigger than that. Have automatic amd fast conversion from one to the other at some reasonable amalgamated lot size. Get rid of most parking requiremwnts, get rid of most lot coverage limits, get rid of the dual fire escape stairwells in the lower density zone (one is enough),get rid of minimum house/ suite sizes, have any proposal within the zoning limits approved within a week.

ipaddr 3y ago

Canada's problem is much bigger than real estate. Adding 3%+ of your population yearly drives down wages and increases housing costs. Canada not building enough housing to support that influx is only part of the problem.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Why do you say "3%+"? Googling "Canada population annual growth rate" brings up a chart that shows an annual growth rate that never exceeds 1.5% over the past 30 years. Canada's growth rate was significantly higher that the US from 2016-2020, but otherwise doesn't really look that different.
- slily 3y ago
  This was in the news for a bit: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230927/dq230927a-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230927/dq230... (+2.9%). These immigration statistics make it clear: https://www.statista.com/statistics/443063/number-of-immigrants-in-canada/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/443063/number-of-immigra... This started after Trudeau was re-elected for the second time, but he has been consistent in calling for increased immigration. I guess he expected it to be his last term and decided to go all out. Of course, considering the timing (housing crisis and stagflation) that's a bad look.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

100%. The problem with housing that's so expensive that it's out of reach is that it completely reinforces the idea that "it doesn't matter how hard you work, I'll never be able to afford a decent place to live", and once large swaths of the population give up on the idea that hard work is rewarded, very bad things tend to happen. People lose faith in institutions, they blame everything as "corrupt", and they're not exactly wrong. It becomes a world of haves vs. have-nots where what defines a "have" is that you, or a parent, already owns a home in a semi-desirable area or better.

osigurdson 3y ago

The only way to curb real estate speculation is to make the investment much less attractive. Do this by building like mad, cut down trees and get it done. If you don't like cutting down trees, you don't like immigration.

randomdata 3y ago
> Do this by building like mad By whom? Things aren't quite so bad now that higher interest rates has scared many people away from building, but prior to that contractors were booked up years in advance. There was nobody else to build more than what we were already building. Sure, the old adage of "just pay the workers more" might work to attract more workers into home construction, but then the cost of housing needs to go up to pay them...
- osigurdson 3y ago
  Can't some of the immigration include people that know how to build houses?
  - randomdata 3y ago
    If you have the wherewithal to be able to build a house, you can do any job out there. So, without a compelling offer, why work in construction? Everyone and their brother will happily hire you to do something else. Perhaps the government could be more heavy-handed, only allowing immigrants into the country under force of building houses, but that goes against Canadian culture, not to mention that other industries who rely on immigrant labour would cry fowl and the Canadians working in construction will feel attacked. Not going to happen. The only real way around it is to see Canada's job market crumble. When building homes is the only work available, then you'll see people begging for those types of jobs (Canadian citizens included). But when there is work elsewhere, most people are going to go elsewhere. Building homes is not exactly compelling work – at least not at the going rate.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

snapplebobapple 3y ago

Thats not really true. We do have a governmwnt regulation problem but it is mostly local. I live in a city that is routinely top 3 for ease of building and even here i am looking at a month or two for the city to get the review process started on my new garage build. The best is a disaster here, the worst is unforgiveable. What we need is provinces stuffing much relaxed regulation down city's throats and forcing service times measured in days and weeks not months and years. Something that would solve this would look like cutting residential zones down to two max and have the lowest approved for anything from single family to six story multifamily and the second being bigger than that. Have automatic amd fast conversion from one to the other at some reasonable amalgamated lot size. Get rid of most parking requiremwnts, get rid of most lot coverage limits, get rid of the dual fire escape stairwells in the lower density zone (one is enough),get rid of minimum house/ suite sizes, have any proposal within the zoning limits approved within a week.