5 ms·

Why would you claim they’re tumours? Is there evidence showing that it’s unsafe? Plenty of ideas are abhorrent when they’re proposed but are obvious in hindsig

Why would you claim they’re tumours? Is there evidence showing that it’s unsafe? Plenty of ideas are abhorrent when they’re proposed but are obvious in hindsight. For example, Ignaz Semmelweis was ridiculed for proposing that surgeons wash their hands before surgery.

cout 3y ago
The article says the meat is grown from immortalized cells. Immortality is a feature common to many cancers and tumors (and some would call it a defining characteristic). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortalised_cell_line https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortalised_cell_line
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  Something tells me we wouldn’t be having this conversation if the original poster had used the term “long-lived” instead.
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  Read your own link
  - pazimzadeh 3y ago
    Per the article: > There are several methods for generating immortalised cell lines: > 1. Isolation from a naturally occurring cancer. This is the original method for generating an immortalised cell line. Conceptually, there isn't much difference between an immortalized cell line and a tumor cell line, except by definition cancer must have a host. They probably both share features like too many and weirdly shaped mitochondria. The overall question is still an interesting one intellectually. Would it even be bad for you to eat an actual tumor from a patient? Is there buildup of toxins? And for lab grown meat, do we really know what the long term impact is of eating pure protein? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning There is no fat (which normally stores many vitamins), no innervation, no extracellular matrix I presume, no immune system. Who knows if lab grown meat is really a pound for pound nutritional replacement for real meat. There is a difference between "safe to eat" and nutritionally equivalent. And if it's not equivalent, then what other supplements are you supposed to take if you're eating it? Also, what if there is a viral or fungal outbreak in the lab, what tests are they running? Is it grown in a medical grade facility? How expensive is that? Is it actually worth it long term, or should we just reform how animals are raised? On the other hand, research should continue, maybe there is the opportunity to engineer lab grown meat to express whatever antigen you want (or remove foreign antigens like sialic acid) and maybe use it as a way to induce tolerance for people with autoimmunity, as a type of food based therapeutic. Oral tolerance to food protein https://www.nature.com/articles/mi20124 https://www.nature.com/articles/mi20124 A red meat-derived glycan promotes inflammation and cancer progression https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4299224/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4299224/
    - jncfhnb 3y ago
      > there are several types of mushrooms > 1. Poisonous mushrooms Like… shut up. That’s just a pathetically obvious cherry pick. > Also, what if there is a viral or fungal outbreak in the lab, what tests are they running? Is it grown in a medical grade facility? How expensive is that? Is it actually worth it long term, or should we just reform how animals are raised? You’re acting like you’re posing these questions as if nobody has thought about them before. Bioreactor contamination is a significant problem that needs to be heavily monitored. You can go read about this rather than saying “I don’t know, ergo we might not know”
      - pazimzadeh 3y ago
        If we knew about mushrooms because of poisonous mushrooms then your point might stand. > “I don’t know, ergo we might not know” Never said that. I'm saying until proven otherwise, I would prefer my meat to have had an immune system, to have experienced sunshine and contain vitamin D in the fat, and to have been stimulated by nerves during its lifetime. The onus is not on me to prove that lab grown meat is equivalent or better. How long has someone survived by exclusively eating lab grown meat? You're not providing any evidence that all the important questions have been answered. Considering that we are just now coming around to appreciate the nutritional value of fat (thanks, big sugar) I'm not going to trust quick studies that could be funded by vested interests. Vegans are not immune to capitalism. If there's a study you want to talk then like, send it over.
        jncfhnb 3y ago
        I don’t give a shit what you think I’m just irritated by you projecting your personal lack of knowledge as a failure of the field
        pazimzadeh 3y ago
        > If you are experiencing rage or severe anger, Safe Horizon is one hotline to keep on hand. Safe Horizon can connect you with anger management counseling and other services with a stated mission of providing support, preventing violence, and promoting justice. Safe Horizon's 24-hour hotline is reachable by calling 1-800-621-HOPE (4673). Consider saving this number in your contacts if you need it. https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/anger/the-anger-management-hotline-what-you-need-to-know-to-get-help/ https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/anger/the-anger-management...
- autoexec 3y ago
  All cancers are immortalized, but not all immortalized cells are cancer. There are countless things that have "features common" to other things, but that doesn't make them the same.
autoexec 3y ago
> Why would you claim they’re tumours? Is there evidence showing that it’s unsafe? Intentional or otherwise they are just spreading disinformation put out by the meat industry to scare people away from a threat to their profits. All the talk about tumors and cancer comes from their PR scare-campaign. https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2024/01/26/cell-based-meat-grows-like-a-tumor-a-new-ad-campaign-targeting-the-cultivated-meat-industry-criticized-as-deceptive-and-unscientific/ https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2024/01/26/cell-based-mea...

cout 3y ago

The article says the meat is grown from immortalized cells. Immortality is a feature common to many cancers and tumors (and some would call it a defining characteristic). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortalised_cell_line https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortalised_cell_line

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mixmastamyk 3y ago
Something tells me we wouldn’t be having this conversation if the original poster had used the term “long-lived” instead.
jncfhnb 3y ago
Read your own link
- pazimzadeh 3y ago
  Per the article: > There are several methods for generating immortalised cell lines: > 1. Isolation from a naturally occurring cancer. This is the original method for generating an immortalised cell line. Conceptually, there isn't much difference between an immortalized cell line and a tumor cell line, except by definition cancer must have a host. They probably both share features like too many and weirdly shaped mitochondria. The overall question is still an interesting one intellectually. Would it even be bad for you to eat an actual tumor from a patient? Is there buildup of toxins? And for lab grown meat, do we really know what the long term impact is of eating pure protein? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning There is no fat (which normally stores many vitamins), no innervation, no extracellular matrix I presume, no immune system. Who knows if lab grown meat is really a pound for pound nutritional replacement for real meat. There is a difference between "safe to eat" and nutritionally equivalent. And if it's not equivalent, then what other supplements are you supposed to take if you're eating it? Also, what if there is a viral or fungal outbreak in the lab, what tests are they running? Is it grown in a medical grade facility? How expensive is that? Is it actually worth it long term, or should we just reform how animals are raised? On the other hand, research should continue, maybe there is the opportunity to engineer lab grown meat to express whatever antigen you want (or remove foreign antigens like sialic acid) and maybe use it as a way to induce tolerance for people with autoimmunity, as a type of food based therapeutic. Oral tolerance to food protein https://www.nature.com/articles/mi20124 https://www.nature.com/articles/mi20124 A red meat-derived glycan promotes inflammation and cancer progression https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4299224/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4299224/
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    > there are several types of mushrooms > 1. Poisonous mushrooms Like… shut up. That’s just a pathetically obvious cherry pick. > Also, what if there is a viral or fungal outbreak in the lab, what tests are they running? Is it grown in a medical grade facility? How expensive is that? Is it actually worth it long term, or should we just reform how animals are raised? You’re acting like you’re posing these questions as if nobody has thought about them before. Bioreactor contamination is a significant problem that needs to be heavily monitored. You can go read about this rather than saying “I don’t know, ergo we might not know”
    - pazimzadeh 3y ago
      If we knew about mushrooms because of poisonous mushrooms then your point might stand. > “I don’t know, ergo we might not know” Never said that. I'm saying until proven otherwise, I would prefer my meat to have had an immune system, to have experienced sunshine and contain vitamin D in the fat, and to have been stimulated by nerves during its lifetime. The onus is not on me to prove that lab grown meat is equivalent or better. How long has someone survived by exclusively eating lab grown meat? You're not providing any evidence that all the important questions have been answered. Considering that we are just now coming around to appreciate the nutritional value of fat (thanks, big sugar) I'm not going to trust quick studies that could be funded by vested interests. Vegans are not immune to capitalism. If there's a study you want to talk then like, send it over.
      - jncfhnb 3y ago
        I don’t give a shit what you think I’m just irritated by you projecting your personal lack of knowledge as a failure of the field
        pazimzadeh 3y ago
        > If you are experiencing rage or severe anger, Safe Horizon is one hotline to keep on hand. Safe Horizon can connect you with anger management counseling and other services with a stated mission of providing support, preventing violence, and promoting justice. Safe Horizon's 24-hour hotline is reachable by calling 1-800-621-HOPE (4673). Consider saving this number in your contacts if you need it. https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/anger/the-anger-management-hotline-what-you-need-to-know-to-get-help/ https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/anger/the-anger-management...
autoexec 3y ago
All cancers are immortalized, but not all immortalized cells are cancer. There are countless things that have "features common" to other things, but that doesn't make them the same.

autoexec 3y ago

> Why would you claim they’re tumours? Is there evidence showing that it’s unsafe? Intentional or otherwise they are just spreading disinformation put out by the meat industry to scare people away from a threat to their profits. All the talk about tumors and cancer comes from their PR scare-campaign. https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2024/01/26/cell-based-meat-grows-like-a-tumor-a-new-ad-campaign-targeting-the-cultivated-meat-industry-criticized-as-deceptive-and-unscientific/ https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2024/01/26/cell-based-mea...