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> I'm skeptical of the idea that some repairs are meant to be performed only by "experts" and that nobody should ever try to learn how to make them. That is a

> I'm skeptical of the idea that some repairs are meant to be performed only by "experts" and that nobody should ever try to learn how to make them. That is a very dangerous point of view. Many things really are too dangerous and require too much expertise for you to do. That's how and why expertise exists - it's required to accomplish certain tasks. Not everything - not nearly everything - can be done by amatuers. It's dangerous to you and also to people around you. The flaming lithium ion cell can kill lots of other people, or leave them in horrible pain and permanently disfigured with burns, or destroy lifetimes of memory and property. What will you tell them? 'I thought I could do it'? Why did you try when everyone told you it was too dangerous? '...' > there is a manufacturing process that: welds cells together to make banks, and that sometimes produces a runaway reaction inside the cells. Given that that's the case, it should be entirely possible to do that safely in a controlled environment inside of a garage. Not unless you have millions of dollars invested in design (by experts trained and experienced in designing such facilities), equipment, and construction for your garage. And it's not near any neighbors - they don't put those factories in residential neighborhoods.

ExoticPearTree 3y ago
There are a few points to make here: 1) You need to understand how things work culturally in a country/region. SE Asia in particular does not have the same concept of mandated safety like in the US or the EU. Which makes things easy. 2) People need to stop using "domain expertise" to gate-keep other people from doing something. Yeah, batteries can be dangerous, but that does not mean you need a highly qualified and expensive person to do something trivial, like welding batteries together. If we would have gone down this path, not Intel/Apple/Google would have been born because Fairchild semiconductor had the expertise, IBM was making personal computers and everyone used Yahoo or AltaVista for search, so what would people without experience achieve, right? When there are no alternatives or they are more expensive than DYI, DYI will always win in places like this. Do you think in Indonesia people have thousands of dollars to buy batteries like they do in other regions?
- throwaway11460 3y ago
  Computer boards might burn but it's usually just a nuisance. Not so much for high energy batteries...
  - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
    This is not as big of problem there as it might be in other places. Here, a video of how fuel is transported in other parts of the world (popped randomly on my feed): https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGePEvYU5/ https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGePEvYU5/. It gets the job done, everything else matters very little to not at all.
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      Dead people, or living people with serious burns and lifelong disfigurement, or property loss - that "matters very little to not at all"? If those things don't matter, what does? Batteries?
      - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
        In a lot of cultures people would rather die trying to save their house. And in many places, for example, people would rather die trying to get their luggage from an airplane in flames thn just running for their lives. My point being that you should not see everything through “western” eyes where life is valued more over psysical possesions. And to answer your question: yes, cheaper batteries matter more in Indonesia than “safe” batteries. And I am pretty sure the same holds for pretty much all of SE Asia.
        wolverine876 3y ago
        The talking point for every evil is to try paint any moral value as arbitrary and/or 'western'. It's transparently ridiculous on a rational level, and furthers real evil, real harm to real people. If you find yourself on that side of the debate, on that path, you've lost your way; you've followed the wrong people.
mbgerring 3y ago
If you actually think commercially available battery packs are being produced in super high tech, super safe, quality-controlled factories by experts, you should try disassembling one. You do not need millions of dollars of equipment to solder battery cells together. You probably need “expert” training, meaning, like, watching a YouTube video. This stuff is not complicated.
- gertop 3y ago
  > You do not need millions of dollars of equipment to solder battery cells together. I have disassembled several. They're all welded, not soldered. Soldering will damage the cell. Improper welding will poke holes in the cell. It's not rocket science but as your own comment proves, basic research is required as well as some practice welding it a safe location.
  - mbgerring 3y ago
    I didn’t know soldering vs welding could damage cells, thanks for that! The battery packs I’ve built are all made from cells that have threaded terminal posts, because I don’t have a laser welder (which as I understand it is the tool that gets used for this most often). I stand by my point though, because a laser welder is not particularly expensive or exotic equipment, you can safely operate one in a garage, and you can learn to use one effectively with a little bit of practice. Attitudes like “IT’S DANGEROUS DON’T EVEN TRY IT” are silly, and lead to people having unwarranted fear about really basic, easy-to-understand technology.

ExoticPearTree 3y ago

There are a few points to make here: 1) You need to understand how things work culturally in a country/region. SE Asia in particular does not have the same concept of mandated safety like in the US or the EU. Which makes things easy. 2) People need to stop using "domain expertise" to gate-keep other people from doing something. Yeah, batteries can be dangerous, but that does not mean you need a highly qualified and expensive person to do something trivial, like welding batteries together. If we would have gone down this path, not Intel/Apple/Google would have been born because Fairchild semiconductor had the expertise, IBM was making personal computers and everyone used Yahoo or AltaVista for search, so what would people without experience achieve, right? When there are no alternatives or they are more expensive than DYI, DYI will always win in places like this. Do you think in Indonesia people have thousands of dollars to buy batteries like they do in other regions?

throwaway11460 3y ago
Computer boards might burn but it's usually just a nuisance. Not so much for high energy batteries...
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago
  This is not as big of problem there as it might be in other places. Here, a video of how fuel is transported in other parts of the world (popped randomly on my feed): https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGePEvYU5/ https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGePEvYU5/. It gets the job done, everything else matters very little to not at all.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    Dead people, or living people with serious burns and lifelong disfigurement, or property loss - that "matters very little to not at all"? If those things don't matter, what does? Batteries?
    - ExoticPearTree 3y ago
      In a lot of cultures people would rather die trying to save their house. And in many places, for example, people would rather die trying to get their luggage from an airplane in flames thn just running for their lives. My point being that you should not see everything through “western” eyes where life is valued more over psysical possesions. And to answer your question: yes, cheaper batteries matter more in Indonesia than “safe” batteries. And I am pretty sure the same holds for pretty much all of SE Asia.
      - wolverine876 3y ago
        The talking point for every evil is to try paint any moral value as arbitrary and/or 'western'. It's transparently ridiculous on a rational level, and furthers real evil, real harm to real people. If you find yourself on that side of the debate, on that path, you've lost your way; you've followed the wrong people.

mbgerring 3y ago

If you actually think commercially available battery packs are being produced in super high tech, super safe, quality-controlled factories by experts, you should try disassembling one. You do not need millions of dollars of equipment to solder battery cells together. You probably need “expert” training, meaning, like, watching a YouTube video. This stuff is not complicated.

gertop 3y ago
> You do not need millions of dollars of equipment to solder battery cells together. I have disassembled several. They're all welded, not soldered. Soldering will damage the cell. Improper welding will poke holes in the cell. It's not rocket science but as your own comment proves, basic research is required as well as some practice welding it a safe location.
- mbgerring 3y ago
  I didn’t know soldering vs welding could damage cells, thanks for that! The battery packs I’ve built are all made from cells that have threaded terminal posts, because I don’t have a laser welder (which as I understand it is the tool that gets used for this most often). I stand by my point though, because a laser welder is not particularly expensive or exotic equipment, you can safely operate one in a garage, and you can learn to use one effectively with a little bit of practice. Attitudes like “IT’S DANGEROUS DON’T EVEN TRY IT” are silly, and lead to people having unwarranted fear about really basic, easy-to-understand technology.