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When Zionism started "peaceful coexistence" was long since gone. You are combining time periods over hundreds of years. Peaceful coexistence ended around 860 (

by ars 3y ago

When Zionism started "peaceful coexistence" was long since gone. You are combining time periods over hundreds of years. Peaceful coexistence ended around 860 (and stated getting worse in 636 with the Siege of Jerusalem), while modern Zionism didn't start till 1840's - around 1,000 years later. Possibly prompted by the Arab massacres in 1834: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed People sometimes talk about how Israel was mostly inhabited by Arabs before Israel was founded, but they neglect to inform that this was because of the numerous massacres against Jews who had been living there for thousands of years.

selimthegrim 3y ago
What happened in 636, who was expelled?
- ars 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(636%E2%80%93637) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(636%E2%80%...
  - selimthegrim 3y ago
    When the Jews got allowed back in?
g8oz 3y ago
Zionism was prompted by what happened in Europe not in the Middle East. Literally 5 minutes of Googling will help you out here.
- myth_drannon 3y ago
  "please, educate yourself" crowd, eh?
- ars 3y ago
  That's not really accurate. In relatively modern times: "The official beginning of the construction of the New Yishuv in Palestine is usually dated ... 1882, .... Jewish immigration to Palestine started in earnest. Most immigrants came from the Russian Empire" Russia is not in Europe. Going further back Zionism got a strong boost when Rome was the center of power in Europe. This was around 1,700 years before Islam even existed. And at the actual start of Zionism, the Celts and Carthaginians were important. Zionism is ancient and it did not start as a result of the Holocaust. It predates virtually all other cultures. Your "5 minutes of Googling" was a failure. Maybe spend a bit longer next time.
  - bcbcocoxndkd 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - ars 3y ago
      > What? Both culturally and geographically this is false. Russia is in Asia, not Europe. And Russian culture is quite different from Western European culture (although obviously the further East you go in Europe, and the closer to Russia, the more it becomes similar). > And the modern Herzl version of Zionism The "Herzl Zionism" is not different from the ancient Zionism. Not sure what you are talking about with altars and red cows. Zionism means Jews want to live in Israel, which has been their homeland for over 3,000 years. For some reason this bothers people, perhaps because Israel has been invaded so many times people try to forget that Israel is the homeland of the Jews, rather than any of the other invaders to the region. And even if you want to talk about Herzl his idea was not in response to events in Europe, aside from the fact that it started in Russia not Europe, there was no specific event he was responding to. He was just responding to Antisemitism in general. Some people think Israel was founded in response to the Holocaust, and while the Holocaust accelerated the matter, the return of Jews to their homeland in Israel was a movement that long predated the Holocaust. If not for Arabs and their frequent massacres of Jews, there would have been a LOT more Jews in Israel even before the Holocaust.

by ars 3y ago

selimthegrim 3y ago

What happened in 636, who was expelled?

ars 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(636%E2%80%93637) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(636%E2%80%...
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  When the Jews got allowed back in?

g8oz 3y ago

Zionism was prompted by what happened in Europe not in the Middle East. Literally 5 minutes of Googling will help you out here.

myth_drannon 3y ago
"please, educate yourself" crowd, eh?
ars 3y ago
That's not really accurate. In relatively modern times: "The official beginning of the construction of the New Yishuv in Palestine is usually dated ... 1882, .... Jewish immigration to Palestine started in earnest. Most immigrants came from the Russian Empire" Russia is not in Europe. Going further back Zionism got a strong boost when Rome was the center of power in Europe. This was around 1,700 years before Islam even existed. And at the actual start of Zionism, the Celts and Carthaginians were important. Zionism is ancient and it did not start as a result of the Holocaust. It predates virtually all other cultures. Your "5 minutes of Googling" was a failure. Maybe spend a bit longer next time.
- bcbcocoxndkd 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ars 3y ago
    > What? Both culturally and geographically this is false. Russia is in Asia, not Europe. And Russian culture is quite different from Western European culture (although obviously the further East you go in Europe, and the closer to Russia, the more it becomes similar). > And the modern Herzl version of Zionism The "Herzl Zionism" is not different from the ancient Zionism. Not sure what you are talking about with altars and red cows. Zionism means Jews want to live in Israel, which has been their homeland for over 3,000 years. For some reason this bothers people, perhaps because Israel has been invaded so many times people try to forget that Israel is the homeland of the Jews, rather than any of the other invaders to the region. And even if you want to talk about Herzl his idea was not in response to events in Europe, aside from the fact that it started in Russia not Europe, there was no specific event he was responding to. He was just responding to Antisemitism in general. Some people think Israel was founded in response to the Holocaust, and while the Holocaust accelerated the matter, the return of Jews to their homeland in Israel was a movement that long predated the Holocaust. If not for Arabs and their frequent massacres of Jews, there would have been a LOT more Jews in Israel even before the Holocaust.