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I design big custom battery packs in car trailers or shipping containers for storing them outside of infrastructure. If the battery catches fire you can drag th

I design big custom battery packs in car trailers or shipping containers for storing them outside of infrastructure. If the battery catches fire you can drag the trailer or shipping containers further away to let it burn out. Of course it gets harder to drag them away after a few minutes of fire when the axles and wheels start to melt. The point is to never put Lithium-ion batteries inside buildings, especially not put them inside heavy (metal) boxes bolted to the building.

lproven 3y ago
> The point is to never put Lithium-ion batteries inside buildings Missing word? Because I have dozens of 'em inside this building right now...
kwhitefoot 3y ago
> never put Lithium-ion batteries inside buildings No EVs in garages or multi-storey car parks?
- morphle 3y ago
  You will have to do some research to find out what the new laws in the making and fire department procedures say about garages and multi-story car parks in 2024. A quick review by me just now suggests the government regulations still have not yet caught up with the new reality in the US and EU: EV's and large batteries inside buildings are not yet forbidden but probably will be soon. Fire departments choose to evacuate a building with EV fires (and other industrial fires) and just let it burn out [2]. Fire departments only quench a fire by sudden rapid cooling if possible, for example by drowning [1] the entire Li-ion fire in a basin. Taking the oxygen away is not the goal. [1] https://www.ctif.org/sites/default/files/2023-03/Putting%20out%20battery%20fires%20with%20water.pdf https://www.ctif.org/sites/default/files/2023-03/Putting%20o... I design neighbourhood batteries as two shipping containers underground. In the bottom container the batteries with multiple infrared camera's looking at all battery sides and also with redundant temperature sensors. The top shipping container will deliver 60.000 liter of water into the bottom container in seconds. Testing such a setup would make for a hot and cool spectacular Mythbusters episode. [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT1QTPEZoHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT1QTPEZoHY
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    > Testing such a setup would ... You've tested it, right?
    - morphle 3y ago
      I wish, it'll cost a million dollars or more to test at this scale and it would still be one data point. Instead I simulated these systems to test the physics. But please, come help me do this test in real life, it will be fun!
      - pwillia7 3y ago
        You can sell tickets to the events like it's 1930
      - wolverine876 3y ago
        Are you representing these devices to others as safe, with safety mechanisms? That is, are you selling or even giving them to people? I hope only you are at risk from these devices (and I hope you are safe too, but that's your choice). Untested technology can't be depended on. As a rule I don't believe anything works unless I see it with my own eyes - if I swap in a new patch cable, I ping something. Safety equipment for mortal risks is on a different level.
        petre 3y ago
        Sounds like a sound design to me. If he gets sued at least he can argue he did everything reasonable to prevent and quench a battery fire. That's how gen 4 nuclear power stations are designed to cool the core in the event of a loss of coolant incident. The other way is to use LiFePo chemistry which doesn't ignite like LiIon but has half the capacity.
        wolverine876 3y ago
        > Sounds like a sound design to me. If he gets sued at least he can argue he did everything reasonable to prevent and quench a battery fire. That's how gen 4 nuclear power stations are designed to cool the core in the event of a loss of coolant incident. "Sounds like a sound design" isn't sufficient engineering; doing everything reasonable would include testing or using an existing tested design; and nuclear power station designs certainly are tested.

lproven 3y ago

> The point is to never put Lithium-ion batteries inside buildings Missing word? Because I have dozens of 'em inside this building right now...

kwhitefoot 3y ago

> never put Lithium-ion batteries inside buildings No EVs in garages or multi-storey car parks?

morphle 3y ago
You will have to do some research to find out what the new laws in the making and fire department procedures say about garages and multi-story car parks in 2024. A quick review by me just now suggests the government regulations still have not yet caught up with the new reality in the US and EU: EV's and large batteries inside buildings are not yet forbidden but probably will be soon. Fire departments choose to evacuate a building with EV fires (and other industrial fires) and just let it burn out [2]. Fire departments only quench a fire by sudden rapid cooling if possible, for example by drowning [1] the entire Li-ion fire in a basin. Taking the oxygen away is not the goal. [1] https://www.ctif.org/sites/default/files/2023-03/Putting%20out%20battery%20fires%20with%20water.pdf https://www.ctif.org/sites/default/files/2023-03/Putting%20o... I design neighbourhood batteries as two shipping containers underground. In the bottom container the batteries with multiple infrared camera's looking at all battery sides and also with redundant temperature sensors. The top shipping container will deliver 60.000 liter of water into the bottom container in seconds. Testing such a setup would make for a hot and cool spectacular Mythbusters episode. [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT1QTPEZoHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT1QTPEZoHY
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > Testing such a setup would ... You've tested it, right?
  - morphle 3y ago
    I wish, it'll cost a million dollars or more to test at this scale and it would still be one data point. Instead I simulated these systems to test the physics. But please, come help me do this test in real life, it will be fun!
    - pwillia7 3y ago
      You can sell tickets to the events like it's 1930
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      Are you representing these devices to others as safe, with safety mechanisms? That is, are you selling or even giving them to people? I hope only you are at risk from these devices (and I hope you are safe too, but that's your choice). Untested technology can't be depended on. As a rule I don't believe anything works unless I see it with my own eyes - if I swap in a new patch cable, I ping something. Safety equipment for mortal risks is on a different level.
      - petre 3y ago
        Sounds like a sound design to me. If he gets sued at least he can argue he did everything reasonable to prevent and quench a battery fire. That's how gen 4 nuclear power stations are designed to cool the core in the event of a loss of coolant incident. The other way is to use LiFePo chemistry which doesn't ignite like LiIon but has half the capacity.
        wolverine876 3y ago
        > Sounds like a sound design to me. If he gets sued at least he can argue he did everything reasonable to prevent and quench a battery fire. That's how gen 4 nuclear power stations are designed to cool the core in the event of a loss of coolant incident. "Sounds like a sound design" isn't sufficient engineering; doing everything reasonable would include testing or using an existing tested design; and nuclear power station designs certainly are tested.