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If the value your espousing is, "No one should ever pay to have others live better than them off a livelihood that they don't support," a great portion of the r

If the value your espousing is, "No one should ever pay to have others live better than them off a livelihood that they don't support," a great portion of the remainder of America's middle class gets Thanos snapped. A lot of the decently-paying jobs in services, tech, etc. that these communities rely on essentially make the world a worse place, but they're profitable, and people gotta eat.

robertlagrant 3y ago
> A lot of the decently-paying jobs in services, tech, etc. that these communities rely on essentially make the world a worse place, but they're profitable, and people gotta eat. If those jobs are paid for by voluntary customers, then that's fine. If they're subsidised through taxes of people who don't want them, that's the issue I'm mentioning.
- underlipton 3y ago
  >If those jobs are paid for by voluntary customers >If they're subsidised through taxes of people who don't want them Yes.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    If they're subsidised, they're not paid for by voluntary customers.
    - underlipton 3y ago
      False dichotomy. Labor can be funded by multiple sources at the same time.
- bedobi 3y ago
  there is no job on this planet that isn't subsidized by taxes how do people show up to work at Google, Apple etc? through everything from "not dying from preventably disease in adolescence" to "being educated in public schools" to "being carried to work on roads and transit paid for by the public"
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    > there is no job on this planet that isn't subsidized by taxes As in if I am a private plumber who does jobs for people, my job is subsidised by taxes?
    - bedobi 3y ago
      Yes. Who do you think laid the infrastructure for people to get water and sewers in the first place?
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        That depends on the city. If it was originally a company town, probably the company. If it's a new build, probably the property developer. But either way, something that already exists is not subsidising the plumber's salary. The plumber is paid by the customer.
        underlipton 3y ago
        Anything built post-GD (which is going to be the vast majority of what you service) was likely touched by government subsidy in some fashion, whether grants, loans, or municipal bonds (tax-exempt, so effectively a subsidy). "Company towns" built before then were often subsidized, in effect, by companies not having to bear the financial burden of their many, many instances of illegal or rights-infringing behavior. That's not considering your customers, who are likely also subsidized by the government in some fashion - if their jobs do not involve federal or state government contracts or supplying or servicing companies holding such contracts, they're almost certainly taking advantage of advantageous tax rebates or deductions.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        You could equally say that tax money is all private money, so really it's all private. It's silly to talk about the provenance of money in these topics.

robertlagrant 3y ago

> A lot of the decently-paying jobs in services, tech, etc. that these communities rely on essentially make the world a worse place, but they're profitable, and people gotta eat. If those jobs are paid for by voluntary customers, then that's fine. If they're subsidised through taxes of people who don't want them, that's the issue I'm mentioning.

underlipton 3y ago
>If those jobs are paid for by voluntary customers >If they're subsidised through taxes of people who don't want them Yes.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  If they're subsidised, they're not paid for by voluntary customers.
  - underlipton 3y ago
    False dichotomy. Labor can be funded by multiple sources at the same time.
bedobi 3y ago
there is no job on this planet that isn't subsidized by taxes how do people show up to work at Google, Apple etc? through everything from "not dying from preventably disease in adolescence" to "being educated in public schools" to "being carried to work on roads and transit paid for by the public"
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > there is no job on this planet that isn't subsidized by taxes As in if I am a private plumber who does jobs for people, my job is subsidised by taxes?
  - bedobi 3y ago
    Yes. Who do you think laid the infrastructure for people to get water and sewers in the first place?
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      That depends on the city. If it was originally a company town, probably the company. If it's a new build, probably the property developer. But either way, something that already exists is not subsidising the plumber's salary. The plumber is paid by the customer.
      - underlipton 3y ago
        Anything built post-GD (which is going to be the vast majority of what you service) was likely touched by government subsidy in some fashion, whether grants, loans, or municipal bonds (tax-exempt, so effectively a subsidy). "Company towns" built before then were often subsidized, in effect, by companies not having to bear the financial burden of their many, many instances of illegal or rights-infringing behavior. That's not considering your customers, who are likely also subsidized by the government in some fashion - if their jobs do not involve federal or state government contracts or supplying or servicing companies holding such contracts, they're almost certainly taking advantage of advantageous tax rebates or deductions.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        You could equally say that tax money is all private money, so really it's all private. It's silly to talk about the provenance of money in these topics.