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I’ve come to believe that time spent on organizational tools and processes is a form of procrastination that’s actually detrimental to focus and productivity. I

I’ve come to believe that time spent on organizational tools and processes is a form of procrastination that’s actually detrimental to focus and productivity. I found much more focus and productivity after I read 4000 weeks and switched to just using a text file for notes and planning.

bjt12345 3y ago
But I am finding my TickTick subscription very handy because it runs across platforms, and integrates with calendars, and provides reminders and views. I can't do that with TXT files near as easily.
myme 3y ago
I completely see your point, and my boring response is "it depends". How heavily I rely on my personal organizational setup depends a lot on context. For instance, at $WORK I need time-tracking and tracability of tasks due to audits. Having a system I barely have to think about is crucial to me in this setting not to waste time in horribly slow web-based ERP-systems. For personal projects I stick to a single text file of issues and ideas. Knowing what to use when is part of the general assessment imo.
- dailykoder 3y ago
  For me, the crucial part is to create a tool/script that just gets one task done as fast as possible. I don't need tools that can do everything. Often it's just a bash script that executes like 5 commands to execute/build something, so that I don't even have to think about those steps and don't forget one. Tho it is a really fine line to not get hung up on those organizational tasks, yes.
blowski 3y ago
It's similar to me wanting to get fit by spending a whole day deciding which trainers to buy, then never wearing them. The illusion of progress.
- freeplay 3y ago
  I felt this one.
- switchbak 3y ago
  There's a flip side: you can focus all of your time on 'working hard' but never pay attention to how you're doing it. In fitness this might be more like: you spend all your time jogging in terrible shoes, working "comfortably hard" and pushing through the pain. Instead you could spend a few hours researching modern training approaches and running techniques and change the entire trajectory of what you could achieve as an athlete. You can change the focus of how you work, reduce wasted or ineffectual energy and put that into dedicated efforts that have maximal payoff. This debate is as old as work itself though, and I'm probably not changing any minds here.
  - blowski 3y ago
    Yes, this is "sharpening the saw". But we all know people who, despite boasting a lot about their extremely sharp saw, chop zero trees. Balance, in all things.
    - josephg 3y ago
      > Balance, in all things. Maybe - but if so, also balance in being balanced. Sometimes "going hard" is needed to make a deadline. And sometimes when you're burned out, you need to do zero work for awhile. I think the better advice is something like: "Be present with the actual moment. Listen to the world and then take the right next action thats actually needed.". Sometimes the next action is sharpening the saw. Sometimes its playing with your kids, or taking a nap, or finally chopping that tree. Its impossible to know whats needed without being actually present with whats going on right now.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
skydhash 3y ago
My advice is too start on paper (notebook, planner) until you find your workflow. If you can’t because it can be cumbersome, use a set of tools like Apple’s default until the pain points prove unbearable. Then you choose something more suitable. I myself have settled on Bear and Things, but that’s because they introduce joy in my workflow (beautiful softwares). But I can replicate my system using any tools, including paper.
sndean 3y ago
This has been my experience using Obsidian and many other similar tools. I've settled on text files sync'd using iCloud. There being whole books, podcasts, courses, etc. about what I'm doing with a lot of .txt files really supports the idea that it's mostly procrastination. (And, yes, I'm procrastinating by replying on HN.)
criddell 3y ago
I've tried to do the todo.txt thing but not being able to sketch or paste in photos or screenshots was a bit of a blocker. Apple Notes with the Pencil stylus is ideal for me right now.
switchbak 3y ago
I spent a few hours automating some repetitive tasks in a way that takes almost the entire burden off of my brain. Then I wired it up to a Stream Deck so these things can notify me asynchronously and easily run in parallel. That was a pretty simple investment, but a total game changer, it saves me gobs of time every month, and was a no-brainer investment. Granted, not all dev workflows are as annoyingly complex as mine, but nonetheless: you're statement is all-encompassing when in fact it's very context dependent. In my case, your advice was simply not true.
- r0n22 3y ago
  What type of tasks ? This sounds really interesting?
  - switchbak 3y ago
    Long running async stuff where I want to be notified when it's done. Things like: - run all the functional tests - rebuild a docker image - rebuild the docker image AND run all the tests AND reformat the code ... It's such a simple idea, but super useful. Think something like this: https://github.com/jamesridgway/devdeck https://github.com/jamesridgway/devdeck I haven't made it publically available, as it's SUPER raw/tailored for me.
- jebarker 3y ago
  I didn't mean to provide advice or make an all-encompassing statement. I just said what has been true for me.
paulddraper 3y ago
The threshold is much different for an individual vs a team. The more minds and hands there are, the more a repeatable, consistent process is needed.
haswell 3y ago
This is absolutely a failure mode that can happen and I think people should be aware of it/be cautious about not falling into the trap, but I don't think this is categorically true, if for no other reason due to the extreme differences in how people think. I've absolutely spent time procrastinating by hunting for the perfect tool, and it took me some time to realize that. But I've also found that a good tool can be a force multiplier that can make a huge difference in productivity and more importantly, the likelihood that I'll stick with something. I've tried and failed numerous times to succeed with a simple text note. I love the idea of the simplicity. But I could never make it work. A few years back I learned that I have aphantasia - my mind's eye is blind. When digging into this, I learned that people's ability to visualize is a spectrum, and while I'm on one extreme end of it, there is a huge variance in how people experience the act of thinking. It made me realize why <thing> that worked for <person> never worked for me, and why you'll find so many people evangelizing <specific approach> because it worked for them. I've learned that tools that help me visualize my thoughts completely change my relationship with them and help unlock deeper thinking. Over time, I've realized that some tools really are "tools for thought". My brain can't do X, but Y tool can, and it becomes part of my extended conscious experience and enables me to do things I couldn't before. I think the critical factor here is to be honest with yourself about what is or is not actually working for you. Recognize the trap of trying to solve problems with tools that aren't really going to change much. But do use tools that help.
- patrickdavey 3y ago
  What tools/methods have you found that help with aphantasia?
  - haswell 3y ago
    For awhile, I was using Miro. The infinite canvas made it possible to start arranging information visually and made it easier to load things back into memory when I’d come back to a project later. I still love it, but prefer something local and less proprietary. Currently, I’m pretty all-in on Obsidian. I don’t have a crazy setup with tons of plugins and I’m not building complex data tables or anything like that. I use: - Daily journal note to jot down thoughts and what I’m working on or thinking about each day - Very actively use [[Link Syntax]] in notes to create placeholder connections to unexplored ideas or real connections to existing notes - I use the Canvas feature to visually arrange things and love that I can embed notes into the canvas or start a local card on the canvas and later convert it to a standalone note - I occasionally use the note graph view to see how previous journal notes cluster around specific topics. I know some people find this part of Obsidian gimmicky, but for me, it helps me find common threads and identify interrelated ideas - I focus on creating small notes that I can grok quickly and rely on note-to-note connections to navigate larger topics I don’t know how much of this workflow is directly applicable to Aphantasia, but the canvas feature in particular is where I feel like I get the most value in terms of visualizing what I otherwise can’t. I also use tools like Figma/Balsamiq to get product ideas out of my head. It’s crazy how different things can be once they go from an abstract notion of “an interface that does X” to an actual drawing of an interface that does X. If there was ever a tool like Miro that I could run locally, I’d use it extensively. Just a nice big toolbox of different ways to visualize things.

bjt12345 3y ago

But I am finding my TickTick subscription very handy because it runs across platforms, and integrates with calendars, and provides reminders and views. I can't do that with TXT files near as easily.

myme 3y ago

I completely see your point, and my boring response is "it depends". How heavily I rely on my personal organizational setup depends a lot on context. For instance, at $WORK I need time-tracking and tracability of tasks due to audits. Having a system I barely have to think about is crucial to me in this setting not to waste time in horribly slow web-based ERP-systems. For personal projects I stick to a single text file of issues and ideas. Knowing what to use when is part of the general assessment imo.

dailykoder 3y ago
For me, the crucial part is to create a tool/script that just gets one task done as fast as possible. I don't need tools that can do everything. Often it's just a bash script that executes like 5 commands to execute/build something, so that I don't even have to think about those steps and don't forget one. Tho it is a really fine line to not get hung up on those organizational tasks, yes.

blowski 3y ago

It's similar to me wanting to get fit by spending a whole day deciding which trainers to buy, then never wearing them. The illusion of progress.

freeplay 3y ago
I felt this one.
switchbak 3y ago
There's a flip side: you can focus all of your time on 'working hard' but never pay attention to how you're doing it. In fitness this might be more like: you spend all your time jogging in terrible shoes, working "comfortably hard" and pushing through the pain. Instead you could spend a few hours researching modern training approaches and running techniques and change the entire trajectory of what you could achieve as an athlete. You can change the focus of how you work, reduce wasted or ineffectual energy and put that into dedicated efforts that have maximal payoff. This debate is as old as work itself though, and I'm probably not changing any minds here.
- blowski 3y ago
  Yes, this is "sharpening the saw". But we all know people who, despite boasting a lot about their extremely sharp saw, chop zero trees. Balance, in all things.
  - josephg 3y ago
    > Balance, in all things. Maybe - but if so, also balance in being balanced. Sometimes "going hard" is needed to make a deadline. And sometimes when you're burned out, you need to do zero work for awhile. I think the better advice is something like: "Be present with the actual moment. Listen to the world and then take the right next action thats actually needed.". Sometimes the next action is sharpening the saw. Sometimes its playing with your kids, or taking a nap, or finally chopping that tree. Its impossible to know whats needed without being actually present with whats going on right now.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

skydhash 3y ago

My advice is too start on paper (notebook, planner) until you find your workflow. If you can’t because it can be cumbersome, use a set of tools like Apple’s default until the pain points prove unbearable. Then you choose something more suitable. I myself have settled on Bear and Things, but that’s because they introduce joy in my workflow (beautiful softwares). But I can replicate my system using any tools, including paper.

sndean 3y ago

This has been my experience using Obsidian and many other similar tools. I've settled on text files sync'd using iCloud. There being whole books, podcasts, courses, etc. about what I'm doing with a lot of .txt files really supports the idea that it's mostly procrastination. (And, yes, I'm procrastinating by replying on HN.)

criddell 3y ago

I've tried to do the todo.txt thing but not being able to sketch or paste in photos or screenshots was a bit of a blocker. Apple Notes with the Pencil stylus is ideal for me right now.

switchbak 3y ago

I spent a few hours automating some repetitive tasks in a way that takes almost the entire burden off of my brain. Then I wired it up to a Stream Deck so these things can notify me asynchronously and easily run in parallel. That was a pretty simple investment, but a total game changer, it saves me gobs of time every month, and was a no-brainer investment. Granted, not all dev workflows are as annoyingly complex as mine, but nonetheless: you're statement is all-encompassing when in fact it's very context dependent. In my case, your advice was simply not true.

r0n22 3y ago
What type of tasks ? This sounds really interesting?
- switchbak 3y ago
  Long running async stuff where I want to be notified when it's done. Things like: - run all the functional tests - rebuild a docker image - rebuild the docker image AND run all the tests AND reformat the code ... It's such a simple idea, but super useful. Think something like this: https://github.com/jamesridgway/devdeck https://github.com/jamesridgway/devdeck I haven't made it publically available, as it's SUPER raw/tailored for me.
jebarker 3y ago
I didn't mean to provide advice or make an all-encompassing statement. I just said what has been true for me.

paulddraper 3y ago

The threshold is much different for an individual vs a team. The more minds and hands there are, the more a repeatable, consistent process is needed.

haswell 3y ago

This is absolutely a failure mode that can happen and I think people should be aware of it/be cautious about not falling into the trap, but I don't think this is categorically true, if for no other reason due to the extreme differences in how people think. I've absolutely spent time procrastinating by hunting for the perfect tool, and it took me some time to realize that. But I've also found that a good tool can be a force multiplier that can make a huge difference in productivity and more importantly, the likelihood that I'll stick with something. I've tried and failed numerous times to succeed with a simple text note. I love the idea of the simplicity. But I could never make it work. A few years back I learned that I have aphantasia - my mind's eye is blind. When digging into this, I learned that people's ability to visualize is a spectrum, and while I'm on one extreme end of it, there is a huge variance in how people experience the act of thinking. It made me realize why <thing> that worked for <person> never worked for me, and why you'll find so many people evangelizing <specific approach> because it worked for them. I've learned that tools that help me visualize my thoughts completely change my relationship with them and help unlock deeper thinking. Over time, I've realized that some tools really are "tools for thought". My brain can't do X, but Y tool can, and it becomes part of my extended conscious experience and enables me to do things I couldn't before. I think the critical factor here is to be honest with yourself about what is or is not actually working for you. Recognize the trap of trying to solve problems with tools that aren't really going to change much. But do use tools that help.

patrickdavey 3y ago
What tools/methods have you found that help with aphantasia?
- haswell 3y ago
  For awhile, I was using Miro. The infinite canvas made it possible to start arranging information visually and made it easier to load things back into memory when I’d come back to a project later. I still love it, but prefer something local and less proprietary. Currently, I’m pretty all-in on Obsidian. I don’t have a crazy setup with tons of plugins and I’m not building complex data tables or anything like that. I use: - Daily journal note to jot down thoughts and what I’m working on or thinking about each day - Very actively use [[Link Syntax]] in notes to create placeholder connections to unexplored ideas or real connections to existing notes - I use the Canvas feature to visually arrange things and love that I can embed notes into the canvas or start a local card on the canvas and later convert it to a standalone note - I occasionally use the note graph view to see how previous journal notes cluster around specific topics. I know some people find this part of Obsidian gimmicky, but for me, it helps me find common threads and identify interrelated ideas - I focus on creating small notes that I can grok quickly and rely on note-to-note connections to navigate larger topics I don’t know how much of this workflow is directly applicable to Aphantasia, but the canvas feature in particular is where I feel like I get the most value in terms of visualizing what I otherwise can’t. I also use tools like Figma/Balsamiq to get product ideas out of my head. It’s crazy how different things can be once they go from an abstract notion of “an interface that does X” to an actual drawing of an interface that does X. If there was ever a tool like Miro that I could run locally, I’d use it extensively. Just a nice big toolbox of different ways to visualize things.