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The issue you're having is not understanding how it can be. The lucky truth is that this is not some hypothetical situation, it's a lived reality for me and ma

by dijit 3y ago

The issue you're having is not understanding how it can be. The lucky truth is that this is not some hypothetical situation, it's a lived reality for me and many more people in Europe. I'm 34 and I don't even have a drivers license; that's freedom. I never needed one. That said: I'm not really talking about an absolute reality (IE; no cars at all). Reducing car usage actually helps those that really need to use a car, like the disabled, the elderly, people hauling large things (such as when they move homes) etc; Groceries aren't far more expensive, but the inner city stores are, on average 5% more expensive than larger stores of the same brand. 5% on your groceries is vastly under the tax burden of maintaining huge roads, the accidents they cause (which has a healthcare burden) and even disregarding that: fuel cost and mileage on your vehicle (which increases insurance rates and decreases the longevity of your car).

gadders 3y ago
I live in Europe as well. I can understand not owning a car, but never learning to drive is like never learning to swim. Driving is a life skill, whether you own a car or not. Groceries are a lot more than 5% more expensive in a corner shop vs out of town supermarket.
- dijit 3y ago
  Getting your drivers license is also very costly, must be transferred when you move country, in countries like Sweden (where I live) you have to retake your test every 10 years. It also requires a lot of time to do anything with it. It's an administrative document, like a passport. You can say "getting a passport is important" and I'd believe you, but better to get it when you need it rather than pre-emptively, because otherwise you're wasting valid years. I find often that when we do things like taking a drivers license we feel like we are incentivised to use it, when we use it we purchase vehicles and register them and then we have sort of a sunk cost feeling. Once you've invested all that time and cost using it feels cheap so you are more likely to use it. On the flip side, because I don't have a license I make subtle decisions to avoid using a car, so my life is relatively car-free, on the very rare occasions I do need a car I can hire someone and it works out significantly cheaper in the long run.
  - gadders 3y ago
    Chacun à son goût. I'd prefer not to have to rely on other people. Also, if you change your mind learning to drive is a lot harder when you're older.
    - dijit 3y ago
      > I'd prefer not to have to rely on other people. Same, that’s why I don’t want to depend on the fuel supply chain or the regulation of a car, or the upkeep of the roads. I know that in certain cities in China they have little lotteries on which cars are allowed to drive each day based on how their license plates start as a way to avoid traffic situations. (they still have traffic situations). (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1361920922003583 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13619...)
- seba_dos1 3y ago
  I never owned a car, never felt the need to. I have learned to drive as a young adult, but unlike swimming, I never found that skill actually useful. If I had to drive a car today I would rather take some lessons first anyway, as there's no way I could actually drive safely otherwise. It's very easy for me to imagine much better ways to spend the money used to learn how to drive and much more useful "life skills" to acquire.

by dijit 3y ago

gadders 3y ago

I live in Europe as well. I can understand not owning a car, but never learning to drive is like never learning to swim. Driving is a life skill, whether you own a car or not. Groceries are a lot more than 5% more expensive in a corner shop vs out of town supermarket.

dijit 3y ago
Getting your drivers license is also very costly, must be transferred when you move country, in countries like Sweden (where I live) you have to retake your test every 10 years. It also requires a lot of time to do anything with it. It's an administrative document, like a passport. You can say "getting a passport is important" and I'd believe you, but better to get it when you need it rather than pre-emptively, because otherwise you're wasting valid years. I find often that when we do things like taking a drivers license we feel like we are incentivised to use it, when we use it we purchase vehicles and register them and then we have sort of a sunk cost feeling. Once you've invested all that time and cost using it feels cheap so you are more likely to use it. On the flip side, because I don't have a license I make subtle decisions to avoid using a car, so my life is relatively car-free, on the very rare occasions I do need a car I can hire someone and it works out significantly cheaper in the long run.
- gadders 3y ago
  Chacun à son goût. I'd prefer not to have to rely on other people. Also, if you change your mind learning to drive is a lot harder when you're older.
  - dijit 3y ago
    > I'd prefer not to have to rely on other people. Same, that’s why I don’t want to depend on the fuel supply chain or the regulation of a car, or the upkeep of the roads. I know that in certain cities in China they have little lotteries on which cars are allowed to drive each day based on how their license plates start as a way to avoid traffic situations. (they still have traffic situations). (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1361920922003583 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13619...)
seba_dos1 3y ago
I never owned a car, never felt the need to. I have learned to drive as a young adult, but unlike swimming, I never found that skill actually useful. If I had to drive a car today I would rather take some lessons first anyway, as there's no way I could actually drive safely otherwise. It's very easy for me to imagine much better ways to spend the money used to learn how to drive and much more useful "life skills" to acquire.